Hymns These Days

by Timothy Dusenbury

Why do new hymn texts disappoint me? Itโ€™s not blind conservatism. I love Fred Pratt Green, Anne LeCroy, and others.

So why do I grow suspicious and wait for disappointment when I see recent dates on the lower left? Because more often than not, I am asked to sing something like โ€˜our planet reawakensโ€™ or to refer to God as the โ€˜twirler of the stardustโ€™.

And what is so problematic about these lines? Nouns, I think. The nouns are the problem.

What about the nouns? Initially I thought it was that they smacked of a post-Enlightenment worldview. Then I came across โ€˜You stem the drudgery of timeโ€™.

I challenge you to hymn the word โ€˜drudgeryโ€™ without the hint of a smirk.

But โ€˜drudgeryโ€™ is a fine English word of late medieval coinage. So much for the post-Enlightenment idea.

I think I came across an answer in a poem by Dan Gerber, one of the finer living American poets. Like all good poems, this is worth reading aloud or at least slowly.

The Bear on Main Street

What made the man kill this bear?
His truck, across which the bear’s body lies,
tells me it wasn’t to feed his family
or because his children were cold.

The bear has beautiful black feet,
delicateโ€จ almost, like the soles of patent leather slippers,
and the wind riffles the surface of its fur
with the sheen of water in the autumn sun.

The bear looks as if it might only be sleeping,
but its tongue lags from its mouth, and the man
has wrapped it with stout twine and bound it
to the bed of his truck
as if he were afraid it might speak.

Three teenage boys pull their pickup to the curb.
One of the boys guesses what the bear must weigh.
Another wants to know how many shots it took,
and the third boy climbs down. He strokes its nose and forehead.

He traces the bear’s no longer living skull
with the living bones of his fingers
and wonders by what impossible road
he will come to his father’s country.

The poem is set in contemporary, rural America. The nouns of the first four stanzas reinforce that fact: truck, slippers, twine, pickup, shots. He is writing from Main Street.

The early stanzas paint a fine scene, but it is the final stanza that makes the poem.

He traces the bear’s no longer living skull
with the living bones of his fingers
and wonders by what impossible road
he will come to his father’s country.

Consider the nouns: bear, skull, bones, fingers, road, father, country.

None of these words are antiquated. They are all part of our everyday syntax.

Then why is this stanza different? Because these nouns are shared. They are words common to both to the syntax of everyday and the syntax of myth.

Here is a crude experiment as proof: โ€˜and wonders by what impossible streetโ€™

Street is strictly our word.

Road is ours, but also belongs to the world of Beowulf, Odysseus, Jesus, and the Buddha.

This is not the key to writing great hymn texts, but if new texts are to survive, they need to play their part in convincing us that the streets of our life comprise a way, and share a road.

 

Timothy Dusenbury is a composer, teacher, and church musician near Washington, D.C. He recently completed his MA in Liturgical Music at St. John’s School of Theology-Seminary.

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Comments

74 responses to “Hymns These Days”

  1. Tim, your observations are well-made and well-taken. Where I work and where I worship, I don’t get to sing many hymns, new or old. But I have never been disappointed by any text written by Sister Genevieve Glen, OSB. For example:

    Tall stands the Tree beside the stream Where living waters flow;
    Wide-flung the branches, cool the shade, Where all the weary go.

    Fresh green the leaves for healing given, Bright gold the new-pressed oil
    That runs as balm upon the banks Toward which the weary toil.

    Deep-scarred the bark, but sweet the wine That pours down, last and best,
    And rich the table spread below, Where all the weary rest.

    Sing praise to God, the gardener Whose labors never cease
    To make beneath the Tree of Life For all the weary, peace.

    Text: Genevieve Glen. OSB. b. 1945; ยฉ1999. The Benedictine Nuns of the Abbey of St. Walburga.
    Published by OCP Publications. All rights reserved.

    Or her text written on September 11, 2001:

    Hymn: “Christ in the Rubble”

    O Christ, beneath the fallen stones,
    Nailed fast to twisted bars of steel
    And slain in flesh and blood and bones,
    Pierced by the fear all mortals feel.
    Arise, from ashes dust and death,
    And breathe into crushed hearts new Breath!

    O Christ, among the wreckage shorn,
    Of hope for those that lie there dead
    Yet bathed in sweat of labors borne
    To free the grieving from their dread.
    Arise from our despair’s long night
    And pour upon us Living Light!

    O Christ, within a world at war,
    Where love and hate fight for the soul,
    And all sights trained on death see far
    But only Love can see the whole:
    Arise from unforgiving pain,
    And teach us how to love again!

    words by Genevieve Glen OSB ยฉ 2001

    I wonder what Christian Wiman would make of this question.

    1. Timothy Dusenbury

      These are wonderful, Paul.
      Somebody new for me to know.
      Thank you.

    2. Keith Byerley

      @Paul F Ford:
      Love the poem Christ in the Rubble and wanted to post it on Facebook today. Wondering if it was difficult to get Copyright approval?

  2. In our family we have a running list of words that we solemnly declare Should Never Be In Hymns. I think it began with “integrity” in Gregory Norbert’s Hosea (hey, I’m as much in favor of integrity as the next guy, just not in hymns).

    1. Karl Liam Saur

      @Fritz Bauerschmidt – comment #2:
      I just renewed “integrity” today in “Lord You Give The Great Commission”, a modern hymn beloved of many a choir director but that leaves me wanting.

      On the other hand, we also sang “Spirit Seeking Light and Beauty”, which never fails to stir my soul. This year is the centenary of the death of Mother Janet Erskine Stuart RSCJ, the author of the text.

      Spirit seeking light and beauty,
      Heart that longest for thy rest,
      Soul that asketh understanding,
      Only thus can ye be blest.
      Throโ€™ the vastness of creation
      Thoโ€™ your restless thought may roam,
      God is all that you can long for,
      God is all his creatures’ home.

      Taste and see him, feel and hear him,
      Hope and grasp his unseen hand;
      Thoโ€™ the darkness seem to hide him,
      Faith and love can understand.
      God, who lovest all thy creatures,
      All our hearts are known to thee;
      Lead us throโ€™ the land of shadows
      To thy blest eternity.

    2. Paul R. Schwankl

      @Fritz Bauerschmidt – comment #2:
      Iโ€™m extremely curious about whatโ€™s on that list. (Yes, โ€œintegrityโ€ would be on mine, and this morning I, too, prayed in song, not very happily, for renewed integrity.)
      Many years ago, when the 1978 Lutheran Book of Worship was new, my wifeโ€™s congregation sang โ€œGod Bless Our Native Landโ€ at a Thanksgiving Eve service. In the second line, some followed the bookโ€™s altered text, โ€œFirm may it ever standโ€; others sang the line as they remembered it, โ€œFirm may she ever stand.โ€ With large groups singing โ€œsheโ€ or โ€œitโ€ respectively, the whole congregation seemed to be singing another word entirely, one that ought to be on anybodyโ€™s list of words that should never be in hymns.

    3. @Fritz Bauerschmidt – comment #2:

      personify
      system
      equality
      bomb
      robot
      job (as in work, not the person – but him too usually)
      hippopotamus

      1. @Adam Wood – comment #22:
        Though I believe it was written with utter sincerity by someone who is a far better Christian than I am, this hymn takes some sort of prize for the sheer number of Words That Should Be Never Used In Hymns:
        tsunami
        reel
        stunned
        core
        economies
        sewage

      2. Jim McKay

        Frits, while I don’t object to the use of tsunami, that hymn is a great example of how not to write a hymn. It is based on another hymn,

        http://carolynshymns.com/the_storm_came_to_honduras.html

        Apparently Mr Holden felt the need to universalize the very concrete imagery, leading to many of the words you dislike. “Economies are ruined and lives in tatters lie” was originally “A weaving loom is shattered, A school in ruin lies.”

        I’m not used to singing words like Nicaragua either, but the original is more acceptable than the adaptation in my opinion.

      3. @Jim McKay – comment #45:
        It seems to me that the original – though a bit weird and aliturgical- is an immediate and authentic response to the tragedy.

        The rewrite, which calls God a “tsunami,” seems both shoddily crafted and born of some kind of degenerate Process Theology.

        Which reminds of another thing I find troubling about modern hymns…

        Strophic hymnody of the sort under discussion is mostly a Protestant phenomenon. Yes, yes, I’m fully aware of Office Hymnody, and the hymn tradition in Catholic Germany. That isn’t my point.

        Modern hymnody is largely a Protestant thing, specifically a mainline, liberal Protestant thing. And so modern hymn texts have a strong tendency to exhibit theology that is non-Catholic, and even unrecognizable from any traditional Protestant understanding as well.

        There’s no reason a Catholic can’t sing a hymn text written by a Protestant. But there’s no reason to assume that Protestants are writing texts that are theologically sound from a Catholic point of view. Catholic publishers need to be a lot more judicious about what makes it into their hymnals and catalogs.

      4. Pat Vallez-Kelly

        @Adam Wood – comment #46:
        To be fair, I don’t the hymn is actually calling God a “tsunami”, although the title makes it appear so. Take another look.

  3. I am reminded of hearing one hymn writer make a comment in favor of using the word “bullet” in hymns rather than the more archaic “sword”. I countered that “bullet” is less sonorant phonetically (the centralized vowel on an accented syllable makes it an awkward word to sing), but I realized on further reflection that my instinctive objection went further: the word “sword”, despite or perhaps because of its absence from “everyday syntax” (the linguist in me would say “lexicon” here rather than syntax, but point well taken anyway), carries a symbolic potency that “bullet”, for whatever reason, simply does not have.

    I am not automatically for or against modern hymn texts; there are a good number I find moving (including several by the aforementioned writer), and a comparable number I find too prosaic. I remember once being particularly struck (not in a good way) by a line that began, “And often the reaction….” I don’t remember the rest, but I thought it sounded more suited to a classroom discussion than a hymn. A text should be accessible enough that we know what we’re saying, but there is also something to be said for treating hymnody as a form of poetry.

    A good example of both at once is “Hark! The herald angels sing”, which has a ring of poetic antiquity and is also a great improvement over the original line, “Hark how all the welkin rings”.

  4. Paul Inwood

    I am with Paul Ford on this. Genevieve Glen’s texts nearly always do it for me, and there are three volumes of them. They are meaty and full of thought-provokingness (whatever the German word is for that!). An example:

    O Christ, in your pity,
    Come, walk in our city,
    Come, hear our woe calling,
    Great Mercy of God.

    We squander our labor
    To feast without savor
    On husks that are hollow,
    Great Mercy of God.

    We starve in our plenty
    Through days that are empty
    And nights long and lonely,
    Great Mercy of God.

    We dance without measure
    In playgrounds of pleasure
    With hearts that are breaking,
    Great Mercy of God.

    We sleep on a grating,
    Worn out with our waiting
    For hope none will give us,
    Great Mercy of God.

    We cry in our sleeping
    From dreams that are weeping
    For someone to heed us,
    Great Mercy of God.

    O Christ, in your pity,
    You live in our city,
    Give eyes that can see you,
    Great Mercy of God.

    Genevieve Glen, OSB; ยฉ2003

    Should I also mention Brian Wren? Everything he has written is worth a look.

    Herman Steumpfle has written some good stuff, and some Thomas Troeger texts (though many of these are marred by imagery that distracts and gets in the way of the message). Of course there are many others. I think Tim Dusenbury needs to spread his net wider.

  5. Sean Whelan

    I guess I’m not quite grasping the problem with texts…. with charity, could examples of problematic texts be shared?

  6. Charles Culbreth

    Paul I, I wondered if mention of Brian Wren would surface, leave it to you!
    I have to say that it is worth every musician’s time to savor and ponder his texts. At the same time, I think that Wren’s lyrics are inexorably tied to the immediate post-conciliar era, which we may still be well within. And is that, if true, how a hymn text should function? As much as I might have once been enamored with “Here hangs a man discarded” for the visceral palpability, it still doesn’t have the gravity of the tune with which it was associated (PASSION CHORALE) and the venerable “O Sacred Head…” And tho’ I mourn the loss of Sr. Glen’s “Christ in the rubble” from OCP’s BB/MI, it too has a specificity to our era that can cut both ways in its usefulness. Wren’s “When love is found” (O WALY WALY) has three verses of six, IMO, that pass full muster. But when he presumes that every marriage will be tried, tho’ likely true, I think it’s an unnecessary closer peek into marital intimacy (emotionally) than is needed to serve at nuptial liturgies.
    And then we get into the didactic problem often with hymnists like the likes of Dufner and Alstott (Sing a new church/Gather and remember, respectively) when their homages to Vatican II are simply blatant and arguably contentious. We don’t want contention when we sing at service, do we really? OTOH, some of the stuff by Huijbers (or was it Oosterhuis?) such as Song to Jesus Christ and Hold me in life are very sublime and I hope long lived.

    1. Charles Culbreth

      @Charles Culbreth – comment #9:

      Sorry to reply to my own post, but it seems to me the questions, problems and exemplars I mentioned were completely ignored by subsequent posts. OK with that.

      However, I want (enquiring mind) want to know: ought hymn texts (’cause this is about “us” extrapolating the Word into artistic conceptualism) stand despite any conditional human exegesis that could be retro-applied as to their universal and timeless approbation?

      I’m all for the immediate, but I am ultimately for the immemorial.What say ye, sages?

  7. Shaughn Casey

    Most of the hymns I like manage to convey pretty deep theology in a way that skips past reason and pierces the soul. Today, for example, we sang Dix’ Alleluia! Sing to Jesus as the recessional. The second verse deals nicely with the Ascension.

    The third verse in particular gets me every time:

    “Alleluia! bread of angels, Thou on earth our food, our stay;
    Alleluia! here the sinful flee to Thee from day to day:
    Intercessor, Friend of sinners, Earthโ€™s Redeemer, plead for me,
    Where the songs of all the sinless sweep across the crystal sea.”

    “Intercessor, Friend of sinners, Earth’s Redeemer, plead for me!” is practically a prayer all by itself.

    How many hymns today will tackle atonement, the Eucharist, the Ascension, etc. in one hymn? Every now and again, I’ll run into one that really gets the job done, but far too often the lyrics are vapid or mushy.

    To be fair, I’m sure there are hymns from the early 1900s and before that were rotten and didn’t make the cut, too, and we’re merely left with the treasures.

  8. Ann Olivier

    Recently in a train station of all places, a group of Icelandic singers, the Arstidir, sang an Icelandic hymn written by an Icelandic chieftain in 1208. They sang a cappella, and they drew a crowd. See the YouTube clip of their performance and a translation of the lyrics at Rod Dreher’s blog.

    If The Elves Took The Train To The Grey Havens | The American Conservative

    To me the lyrics epitomize what the lyrics of many hymns do, and it is the meaning, not the words, we value most. The poem is both a great hymn of praise and a plea for healing and for relief from suffering. The poet addresses God confidently on behalf of himself and others.

    Hear, smith of the heavens,โ€จwhat the poet asks.โ€จMay softly come unto meโ€จthy mercy.โ€จSo I call on thee,โ€จfor thou hast created me.โ€จI am thy slave,โ€จthou art my Lord.
    God, I call on theeโ€จto heal me.โ€จRemember me, mild one,[1]โ€จMost we need thee.โ€จDrive out, O king of suns,โ€จgenerous and great,โ€จhuman every sorrowโ€จfrom the city of the heart.
    Watch over me, mild one,โ€จMost we need thee,โ€จtruly every momentโ€จin the world of men.โ€จsend us, son of the virgin,โ€จgood causes,โ€จall aid is from thee,โ€จin my heart.
    While the hymn shows an intimacy between the human and God, it also clearly manifests the differences between the two. The descriptions of God through some great poetic images yield a particularly full description of the nature of the Christian God. We know that the writer was an Icelandic warrior, but the God he worships is not only the creator, “smith of the Heavens” and “king of suns” (great metaphors!), but the poet also addresses this God twice as “mild one”. What an improvement this image of a gentle God is over the image of the wrath-filled Jahweh in the OT.

    At the end the poet shows himself to be an idealist, asking God “send us, son of the virgin, good causes”. A request for “good causes”? I’ve ever seen that plea in a prayer before, and what a beautiful request it is, and so the hymn also inspires.

  9. Ann Olivier

    Continued =

    There’s not a superfluous word or phrase in the whole poem, no fill-in repetitions, no trite metaphors, no insipid descriptions of creatures as pretty images of a pretty God. (Is God *pretty*?)

    In sum, it presents God as the awesome but merciful and gentle Lord and Father that He Is. The man knows he is weak and needs God’s help, but he knows he *can* speak directly to God, son of the Virgin, so he doesn’t hesitate to make his requests while praising God. And the theology is as solid today as it was 900 years ago.

    How many contemporary hymns do all this with this sort of intensity? Intensity. Maybe that’s the defining difference between the mediocre hymns of today and the great ones. ISTM that the intensity is born of both the meaning and the very compact structuring of the poem. Not a wasted word.

    I’m sorry, but the poem was condensed by the PrayTell program so what what appears above doesn’t show how the lines of the poem break. You can get the proper translation at Rod Dreyer’s site.

  10. Ann Olivier

    Ooops — Sorry again. Dreyer’s address (which gives the translation) didn’t go through either. Here it is.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/if-the-elves-took-the-train-to-the-grey-havens/

  11. STEVEN SURRENCY

    Tim is definitely onto something. The time-specific nouns employed in many modern compositions is a big part of the problem.

  12. John Swencki

    We’ve all seen the prose and poetic versions of liturgy’s sequences (for Corpus Christi, etc.) For the most part, I prefer the prose translations.

    I tend to similarly (and broadly) divide hymns. Those with a prose lyric are easier for me to understand, sing and remember. They usually tell a story, or a narrative. The poetic translations, though lovely, are at times a bit too esoteric for me. Spend too much time trying to firgure out what it means rather than singing and enjoying it.

    Plus, some melodies are easier to sing than others. Some seem like they were written for professional vocalists. (Sopranos at that.)

  13. Nuala Cotter

    Interesting discussion! If you share some other hymns, would you mind adding the meter, too? I can hear that the first hymn proposed by Paul Ford is CM, but would like help with others, if possible. Thanks!

  14. Fr. Jan Michael Joncas

    I am presently engaged in a project to write a “hymn of the day” text for all the Sundays and Solemnities of the 3 year Roman Catholic lectionary cycle. About a year ago, I tried an experiment in which I submitted six hymns of the day for the six Sundays of Lent, Year B, to this blog and asked for feedback. The texts are founded on the particular readings assigned to the day. Arising from insights gained in lectio divina and exegetical study, they usually begin by grappling with some aspect(s) of the proclaimed word and then turning to prayer of praise, thanksgiving, lamentation, petition or intercession. The critiques were frequently quite helpful, so much so that I completely discarded one hymn text and created another for that particular Sunday.
    I wonder if we could create an environment on this blog where those engaged in hymn text writing would be willing to share their work in progress for helpful feedback. Of course we would have to respect each other’s intellectual property and any critiques presented should be offered in a spirit of respectful charity. Such a forum might serve the praying and singing church by forging new texts for common prayer already tested in various contexts and critiqued by a variety of critical intelligences.
    Perhaps the moderator of Pray Tell could suggest how such a project could work. I’m also aware that creating such a cyberspace project may not be an appropriate use of Pray Tell’s bandwidth. I take heart from my colleagues offering examples of particular hymn texts that they think “work”; it would certainly be helpful to me (and I suspect other hymn text writers) to submit our own work to see if it “works” at all and then to revise and polish it in response to criticism.

  15. Kevin Keil

    This topic is dear to my heart. OCP and I just released a collection of new hymns titled SHINE IN ME. The hymns were written by Kate Bluett, a young wife and mother in my parish, and set to my original tunes. I think she will be a powerful voice in Catholic Hymnody.

    Here is a hymn from the collection:

    WHO IS THE CRUCIFIED?

    Who is the crucified?
    Oh, that a god should fall!
    That he through whom the world was made
    should bleed for it as well.
    โ€™Tis Christ, the Son of God,
    who suffered to save all.
    Infinity bound into flesh
    broke all the bonds of hell!

    Who is the crucified?
    โ€™Tis Jesus, Son of Man,
    who, from a virgin mother born,
    lived out a mortal span.
    He grew as all men do,
    and loved as all men can.
    To give us life he gave his lifeโ€”
    oh, kiss his wounded hand!

    Who is the crucified?
    The risen one is he!
    Death waged a war against him once,
    but died on Calvary.
    The lamb who once was slain
    arose to set us free.
    He offers us his cross, himself,
    that we might rise as he!

    Who is the crucified?
    โ€™Tis he who will return
    when all our days have run their courseโ€”
    may it be soon! We yearn
    to hear him speak in truth
    and see his justice done,
    and watch his wounded hands reach out
    to welcome faithful ones.

    Now praise the crucified,
    all you who love his name,
    all you who serve him in the poor,
    who give up wealth and fame,
    who watch for him by night
    and wait for him by day,
    who love as he has shown you loveโ€”
    Praise Him eternally!

    ยฉ 2012, Kate Bluett. Published by OCP Publications. All rights reserved.

    1. Paul Inwood

      @Kevin Keil – comment #17:

      It’s so interesting to me how people’s tastes differ. I find this text more than a shade or two too devotional for me. But the real problem is not that. It is the technical issue which occurs in this stanza:

      Who is the crucified?
      โ€™Tis he who will return
      when all our days have run their courseโ€”
      may it be soon! We yearn
      to hear him
      speak in truth
      and see his justice done,
      and watch his wounded hands reach out
      to welcome faithful ones.

      If you were trying to sing this whole text to the tune DIADEMATA, which otherwise fits it very well, everything would come to grief here in stanza 4, with the run-on of sense between lines 4 and 5. Did no one tell Kate that this kind of thing is a no-no in conventional hymnody?

      She’d have done better to write something like

      …when all our days have run their course
      and suns have ceased to burn.
      We long to hear him speak
      and see his justice done,…

      which is a far-from-perfect suggestion but shows the direction to go in.

      This kind of thing is precisely why Mike Joncas’s proposal is so important. Both text-writers and composers need fora in which they can consult with their peers and learn from each other. In the UK, there is a composers’ group that has flourished since 1968, where composers have been able to place their work under scrutiny by others involved in the same craft. Everyone has learned and developed. Christopher Walker, who was at one time a member of the UK group, has been doing something similar on the West Coast over the past 15 years and more. Groupings of monastic composers on both sides of the Atlantic have also had their own fora for many years.

      The idea of having an ongoing online forum specifically for writers of English hymn texts to subject their work to critique and refinement is a good one which I would heartily endorse.

      1. @Paul Inwood – comment #19:
        In addition to your remarks, I’d say another small change that would go a long way is to change the opening line of the last stanza, “Now praise the crucified”, to “Praise now the crucified”.

      2. Charles Day

        @Jeffrey Pinyan – comment #20:
        Sounds exactly the same to me except one is said by a human and the other is said by Yoda. Not sure why it’s an improvement.

      3. @Charles Day – comment #28:
        I made the suggestion because the tunes that come to mind for 6686 (like DIADEMATA for “Crown Him with Many Crowns”) put emphasis on the first syllable of the first line of each stanza: “CROWN him with many crowns”.

        Since the emphasis in the line “now praise the crucified” should (in my opinion) be the verb “praise” rather than the adverb “now” — just as the emphasis in the previous stanzas is naturally on “who” rather than “is” — I think “Praise” should be the first word of the last stanza.

        We have plenty of quality hymns, even modern ones, that adopt the “Yoda” construction, thankyouverymuch.

      4. Jordan Zarembo

        @Jeffrey Pinyan – comment #31:

        I made the suggestion because the tunes that come to mind for 6686 (like DIADEMATA for โ€œCrown Him with Many Crownsโ€)

        ฮดฮนฮฌฮดฮทฮผฮฑฯ„ฮฑ/diadฤ“mata could mean “crowns”. Was the tune specifically created for the lyrics?

      5. @Jordan Zarembo – comment #33:
        Ever since I noticed the name of the tune, I’ve suspected as much.

      6. Fr. Ron Krisman

        @Jordan Zarembo – comment #33:
        Yes, Elvey composed DIADEMATA specifically for Bridges’ “Crown Him with Many Crowns.”

        See http://www.hymnary.org/tune/diademata_elvey

      7. Paul Inwood

        @Fr. Ron Krisman – comment #36:

        When I was growing up we always thought of DIADEMATA as the “Protestant” tune for this hymn. The “Catholic” tune, actually a better setting than Elvey’s, is CORONA that Sir Richard Terry first published in the Westminster Hymnal in 1912. That was what everyone sang before Vatican II until it became generally permissible to use non-catholic hymns in Catholic liturgy after the Council.

        The same was true of the Christmas hymn “See, amid the winter’s snow”, where the Catholics had a much better tune for Caswall’s text that has now, alas, been completely swept away by Goss’s HUMILITY.

        [nostalgia off!]

      8. Jeff Rice

        @Paul Inwood – comment #20:
        Paul, I respectfully disagree ๐Ÿ™‚ Singing this to DIADEMATA, it’s a clever device to leave “We yearn” out there so one is left to literally yearn for three beats knowing something has to come next, and anticipating what it is we are yearning for. I think Ms. Bluett knows the convention, and broke the rules intentionally to amplify her point, very clever!

        We would be remiss not to mention Sylvia Dunstan and her amazing contribution to modern hymnody through just a few collections.

  16. Alan Hommerding

    As has been previously noted, the Spiritโ€”through the grace of timeโ€”will help us with the winnowing. In the meantime, we have to remember that even our favorite and/or the best hymn text authors produced quite a number of texts that no longer are with us. And if you do the research, itโ€™s often easy to tell why.
    Last year, at an Organ Historical Society event, we sang Fr. Paul Nienaberโ€™s โ€œSing the Lord a New Songโ€ [disclaimer: this is a WLP text of which I was the editor]. This particular stanza contains a couple of things of which Iโ€™m not particularly fond:

    From the best traditions
    weave a faithful core;
    heed the Spiritโ€™s visions
    lifting up the poor.
    Celebrate the mission,
    hope and peace advance,
    praising each addition
    to the ancient dance.

    (Paul Nienaber, SJ, ยฉ 2011, World Library Publications)

    The woman sitting in front of me had to stop singing, because she was so moved that sheโ€™d begun to cry.

    As with individual pieces of music and/or other works of art, it is easy enough to set ourselves up as absolute/final arbiters of quality and taste โ€ฆ sometimes to the point that we get self-righteous. If youโ€™ve read the gospels, that should be a red flag.

    Until that day weโ€™re singing the celestial hymn for all eternity, when I encounter hymn texts or hymn words or rhymes or rhetorical gestures that grate on me, I strive to pray and hope that for somebody sitting a pew or two (THEREโ€™S a rhyme keeper!) away itโ€™s a moment of grace, healing, joy, assurance, or strength.

    For me, it’s still Charitie Lees Bancroft’s “Before the Throne of God Above”

    Because the sinless Savior died,
    My sinful soul is counted free;
    For God, the just, is satisfied
    To look on Him and pardon me.

  17. Johann Christian

    One aspect of modern hymnody–aside from often being stuck in painfully modern words–is that it often “stuck in the subject.”
    So, I admit, “Immortal, Invisible, God only wise,” although it’s never made me tear up, is in my view a very effective hymn: It’s powerful, catchy, and it achieves its telos of praising God.
    Modern hymns can (like comment #18) be very moving but, in a sense, the object of praise is me doing something God would like. I think that often happens: we sing about who we are, what we are or ought to be doing, how we are feeling about God, even how much we’re praising God, but the referent is often ourselves.
    Instead of reducing this to a “androcentric vs. theocentric” debate, the reason I think singing about ourselves tends more towards failure is that, if I am singing about… weaving a faithful core… I know that’s awkward because I’m not a weaver, or if I’m singing about singing a new church into being, I know that’s awkward because I had no particular intention to do that, either. It stumbles on the inevitable gap between what the hymn writer wants me to be saying about myself and what I think would actually be an authentic statement to make about myself.

  18. I write hymn texts occasionally, and have gotten quite a positive response for my efforts. Here are a few examples of my texts, which may serve as credentials (or not) for my next comment which will respond to the questions/issues of the post.
    —————————————-

    DO NOT STAND AND STARE IN WONDER
    Hymn for the Ascension
    Tune: THAXTED

    Do not stand and stare in wonder into the sky above
    You have seen the wondrous glory of the risen Lord of Love
    And just as you have seen him ascend into the skies
    So shall your living savior return before your eyes
    Alleluia! Alleluia! We praise our God and King
    Alleluia! Alleluia! Your people ever sing.

    On his throne in highest heaven our savior takes his place
    Now and always on the Mercy Seat, the throne of endless grace.
    Though not only there we seek him, never far from us is he
    We know the Lord is with us if we have to see
    Neither staring up in wonder nor hiding like the dead
    We will find him here together in break of the bread.

    All you servants of the living God, now sing and clap your hands
    For the Lord who once was crucified is Prince of all the lands.
    Sound the trumpet, sing together, as our savior mounts his throne
    And hear the voice that calls us a people for his own.
    Alleluia to the Father, and to his only Son
    Alleluia to the Spirit, Eternal Three in One.

    1. Paul Inwood

      @Adam Wood – comment #24:

      On his throne in highest heaven our savior takes his place
      Now and always on the Mercy Seat, the throne of endless grace.

      These two lines are weak:
      (a) because of the repetition of “throne” โ€” substituting “source” or “fount” for the second “throne” would do it;
      (b) because “Mercy Seat” always sounds like a commode, especially if “throne” is anywhere close at hand!

      We know the Lord is with us if we have to see

      There is something missing here. Perhaps the line should run
      “We know the Lord is with us if only we would see”

      We will find him here together in break of the bread.
      This must be “in breaking” or even “in the breaking”

      1. @Paul Inwood – comment #40:

        TYPOS ALL

        now and always on the Mercy Seat, the SOURCE of endless grace.

        if we have FAITH to see

        in BREAKING of the bread

        i was re-typing quickly while cross-referencing the original in another window

  19. FROM ANCIENT ROOTS
    Hymn for Advent
    Tune: CONDITOR ALME (or any other LM)

    From ancient roots, a shoot shall rise,
    Full-blooming Wisdom of our God;
    With perfect judgement in His eyes,
    and perfect justice from His rod.

    Abundant peace, like streams, shall flow,
    Til stars and moon fall from the sky;
    And all the lands and peoples know,
    the Name of God, the Lord Most High.

    A voice cries out, “Prepare the Way,
    Repent, and make His pathways clear!”
    We dare not rest, dare not delay,
    Salvation by our God is near.

    The axe, as yet, awaits the tree,
    The threshing floor awaits the fan.
    Before His justice, none can flee;
    Beneath His judgement, none can stand.

    Prepare then well, and swiftly too,
    For swifter still is God’s own grace.
    Prepare your heart to be made new,
    Prepare your eyes to see His face.

    ——————–

    O GRACIOUS DWELLING
    Marian Hymn for the Epiphany

    O gracious dwelling of our King
    Rise up and let the Magi in,
    Who come to honor, laud and sing
    The child who saves us from our sin.

    You are the temple, you the star,
    The tabernacle full of grace,
    A host for pilgrims near and far,
    On earth, the purest holy place.

    From you, O Queen, O seat, O bride,
    The greatest King is born to earth.
    To Him and you the wise shall ride,
    to gift and praise the Holy birth.

    Your offspring shall our shepherd be,
    and you our mother, evermore.
    You, our grace, our life; and he
    Our sure salvation, source, and store.

    We offer gold and rich perfume,
    And all the gifts we have to bring,
    To praise the one who from your womb,
    Came forth to be our Lord and King.

    1. Paul Inwood

      @Adam Wood – comment #25:

      I really like the hymn “From Ancient Roots”, with the exception of the line and perfect justice from His rod because of the unfortunate connotations of the last word.

      I also like “O Gracious Dwelling”, but there are one or two points here:

      From you, O Queen, O seat, O bride,
      You really need to find another monosyllable to replace “seat”, which is mirth-provoking.

      You, our grace, our life; and he
      There is a syllable missing from this line somewhere. The most obvious thing would be “You are our grace, our life….”, were it not for “are our” which is virtually unsayable, let alone unsingable. Perhaps “And you, our grace, our life…”

      Generally, I see in the examples you have given a tendency to over-punctuate, putting commas in where none are needed (e.g. “From ancient roots a shoot shall rise”) and semicolons where commas would be better. Hope that is helpful.

      1. @Paul Inwood – comment #41:

        >>perfect justice from his rod

        if you can think of something better there, I will change it.

        >>O seat

        really? mirth-provoking?

        >>You, our grace…

        I had not notice the syllabic omission previously because the tune I sing it to in my head allows a drop of the first syllable of the line, coming in on the accent.
        I need to look at that line again.

        >>over-punctuate

        Yes, quite. Bad habit.

        >>Hope that is helpful.

        Very. Thanks.

      2. Paul Inwood

        @Adam Wood – comment #43:

        >>O seat

        really? mirth-provoking?

        What can I say? See my “commode” observation further up the thread. I can’t imagine that you’d ever write a text with “O butt” in it. Those are the connotations, alas. We really need to be aware of the many double entendres and scatological references that are still rife in the culture that surrounds us.

      3. Douglas Spangler

        @Adam Wood – comment #43:

        From ancient roots, a shoot shall rise,
        Full-blooming Wisdom of our God;
        With perfect judgement in His eyes,
        And perfect justice from His rod.

        >>if you can think of something better there, I will change it.

        Adam,

        Mindful of “Conrad’s Rule of Advice” mentioned in #47, and at the risk of changing too much of your original text, I offer the following suggestion for your consideration:

        From ancient roots a shoot shall rise–
        A healing balm for all our race,
        A Savior who will hear our cries,
        A Judge whose word can grant us grace.

        –Douglas

      4. @Douglas Spangler – comment #72:

        I like it. It’s not quite where I want to be with it, but it gives me some ideas.

        Thanks!

  20. My thoughts on hymn writing:

    1. The “so what” test.
    There are enough hymns already. More than enough. WAAAAAAY MORE THAN ENOUGH.
    We don’t need yet another Christmas lullaby to the baby Jesus, and we probably don’t need yet another metrical Magnificat.
    I try to only write something when one or both of the following things has happened:
    -I have been inspired to do so. And I really mean inspired.
    -I cannot find an existing text to fill some specific need.

    2. Timelessness
    Can I imagine people singing this text 100 years ago?
    What about 100 years from now?

    3. Gravity
    I try to avoid being cute, modern, trendy, or politically correct.

    4. Open discussion
    When I write a new hymn text, I share it publicly before using it in worship. I usually do this at the Musica Sacra forum. I invite comment and criticism. This ALWAYS improves the text.

    5. No stupid rhymes, no clever puns, no awkward turns of phrase.

    6. It should never be “good enough.” It should make people say, “Oh my gosh this text is amazing!” Anything less does not pass the so-what test, in the face of the staggering number of existing amazing texts.

    ———————

    As to the question baked into this post:
    Why are there so many bad hymns these days?
    (or… Are there a lot of bad hymns these days?)

    There are a LOT of bad hymns these days.

    I blame bad taste generally, and theological/liturgical philosophy that is not grounded in truth, beauty, and eternity. This creates texts that are bad, clever, too modern, and whatever else; it also allows them to be used by people who ought to know better.

  21. David Haas

    Names that I recommend ALL of us spend more time mulling over in terms of marvelous texts:

    Mary Louise Bringle (GIA – 2 collections of texts)

    Adam Tice (GIA – 3 collections of texts)

    Ruth Duck

    Shirley Erena Murray (Hope)

    Already mentioned – Brian Wren (Hope)

    Jeffrey Rowthorn

    Andrew Pratt

    and Michael Joncas’ hymn text volumes (with OCP)

    Delores Dufner

    Love Michael’s idea.. let’s do it.

    1. @David Haas – comment #29:
      “Already mentioned โ€“ Brian Wren (Hope)”

      —–

      David –

      Your setting of Brian’s “Christ is Risen, Shout Hosanna” has been a dear favorite of mine for as long as I can remember. (Along with “God is Alive,” by the way.)

  22. Ann Olivier

    “No stupid rhymes, no clever puns, no awkward turns of phrase.”

    Adam Wood —
    You have inspired me to write a poem in defense of professional poets:

    No stupid rhymes, no clever puns,
    No awkward turns of phrase
    We want to sing our love of God
    And give Him proper praise

    When our current songs dispose out minds
    To wander all over the place
    It’s a crying shame we’ve ourselves to blame
    For their sorry lack of grace.

    Let’s find some poets tried and true
    Who’ll write our poems dainty
    (God’ll take those oh so sincere attempts
    But He’d rather have Seamus Heaney.)

  23. Alan Johnson

    I have a soft spot for the hymns of John Bell of the Iona Community. They are often challenging, calling for an active reponse to the gospel, and are sometimes a bit gnarley.
    Jesus Christ is waiting is typical. It is sung to Noel Nouvelet

    Jesus Christ is waiting, waiting in the streets
    No-one is his neighbour, all alone he eats
    Listen, Lord Jesus, I am lonely too
    Make me, friend of stranger, fit to wait on you.

    Jesus Christ is raging raging in the streets
    Where injustice spirals and real hope retreats
    Listen, Lord Jesus, I am angry too
    In the Kingdomโ€™s causes, let me rage with you.

    Jesus Christ is healing, healing in the streets
    Curing those who suffer, touching those he greets
    Listen, Lord Jesus, I have pity, too
    Let my care be active, healing just like you

    Jesus Christ is dancing, dancing in the streets
    Where each sign of hatred he, with love, defeats
    Listen, Lord Jesus, I should triumph too
    On suspicionโ€™s graveyard let me dance with you

    Jesus Christ is calling, calling in the streets
    โ€œ Who will join my journey? I will guide their feet.”
    Listen, Lord Jesus, let my fears be few
    Walk one step before me, I will follow you.

    On a general note I really appreciate the trend away from devotional hymns towards scripture-based texts.

  24. John Corbyn

    I find hymns by the English Anglican bishop Timothy Dudley-Smith of excellent quality.

  25. Paul Nienaber SJ

    Having been on both the giving and receiving end of text critiques/editions (profound bows of thanks to Professors Hommerding and Joncas), permit me to offer a few impressions:

    1) When I offer a critique or edit, I always preface it with “Conrad’s Rule of Advice: Just because some one gives you advice doesn’t mean you have to take it.” (I am also amazed and humbled that other authors not just listen to, but apply my suggestions.) There are people to whom I always send new attempts of my work, and take their responses VERY seriously; there are others to whom I have ceased sending pieces, because the comments have been non-helpful.

    2) Sometimes the exchange of editions via email (or blogpost) is frustrating; I want to (and occasionally do) call my interlocutor and say, “I think I’m missing something here.” So much as I am intrigued by Mike’s suggestion, I wonder about its feasibility.

    3) Cf #19 comment 1: Alan is right to point out that one person’s fungal tree-root infestation is another person’s truffle. Some of this is personal like/dislike; some of it is for good reason. (Hence my diligent attention to Alan’s editorial rhodography, pace the example above.) I know that my writing is “high-concept,” and some may choose not to use a text that has words like “coruscating” or “congeries” because of their high-falutin-eity. When I’m choosing musics, I may avoid using texts with archaic language. This is assembly-dependent, and not just a private decision.

    4) The majority of the pieces I hear at parish masses are songs, not hymns. Not that one is better, but they are different, and require different authorial skills.

    Let me stop there for now. Thanks. Paul

  26. Fr. Jan Michael Joncas

    Re: #35. Mr. Culbreath wrote: “However, I want (enquiring mind) want to know: ought hymn texts (โ€™cause this is about โ€œusโ€ extrapolating the Word into artistic conceptualism) stand despite any conditional human exegesis that could be retro-applied as to their universal and timeless approbation?

    I confess myself somewhat baffled by the formulation of these questions. I will address only the first question and pass over the material in parentheses.

    What does “ought hymn texts stand” mean? I take it to mean: “ought hymn texts to remain unchanged” or possibly “ought hymn texts to continue to be used,” but I’ll be happy to be corrected.

    What does “despite any conditional human exegesis” mean? I take it to mean: “despite any interpretation of the text intending to explicate what the original ‘author’ intended to communicate to the original ‘audience’ in a conditional manner, i.e., recognizing the this proposed interpretation may be incorrect or less than complete” but if Mr. Culbreth wanted to communicate something else, I’ll be happy to be corrected.

    What does “that could be retro-applied” mean? I take it to mean that the present proposed interpretation of the text “could be applied back on the text” or “could apply an interpretation from a later period on an earlier text,” but I don’t know what that means; could it be that later interpretations of the text be applied to the text without reference to what the original ‘author’ intended? Again I would be happy to get insight.

    What does “as to their universal and timeless approbation” mean? I take it to mean a present proposed interpretation of the text applied back to the text without reference to what the original ‘author’ intended “concerning the texts’ approval (by whom?) without the constraints of particular world views or perspectives limited to a particular time.” I just don’t know what the question means when all of the subsections (omitting the material in parentheses) is brought together…

  27. Charles Culbreth

    Sorry, Mike. Iโ€™m happy to thank you for explicating correctly what my obtuse thoughts meant.
    To boil down some of that further, when I first started the thread and was reminded of Sr. Glenโ€™s โ€œChrist in the rubble,โ€ I remembered how profound that text was not only for the proximity and immediacy of the text to event connection, but how a hymn text can homilize, move and transform a heart. That text remains vibrant not only because of 9/11 but also of the continuous, senseless violence of terrorism and warring brutality around the globe in both hemispheres.
    But I also was reminded via this thread of a Henry Vaughan poem I set to a hymn which contained this gem of a thought: โ€œAnd here in the dust, in the dust, oh here, the flowers of Godโ€™s love appear.โ€
    I suppose my concern is whether the import and implication of Christโ€™s presence in desolation and despair is better understood and assimilated by the Christian heart by the more generic text (the Vaughan) or the specific (Glen) approach to prose? Thereโ€™s certain plenty good room for both.
    But will โ€œChrist in the rubbleโ€ persevere in the collective memory of hymnody as long as the Vaughan?

    1. Alan Hommerding

      @Charles Culbreth – comment #50:
      Not necessarily a “reply” to comment #50 – but we must recall that communal/congregational singing is connected to the phenomenon of communal song in the surrounding culture as much as it is to the quality of hymns, ancient or modern:
      http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/03/how-communal-singing-disappeared-from-american-life/255094/

  28. Alan Hommerding

    And a corollary to my non-reply comment above: we are also asking congregations, in hymn-singing, to be engaged by poetry, another thing that people do not do in the surrounding culture (also documented by The Atlantic in the previous century):
    https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/poetry/gioia/gioia.htm

  29. Fr. Jan Michael Joncas

    Re: #49. Thanks so much for helping me to understand your thought. I suspect that some “particular” texts gradually take on more generic referents (a possible e.g.: the transformation of “My Eyes Have Seen the Glory of the Coming of the Lord”?) and some “generic” texts come to have very specific referents (e.g., the transformation of “Deutschland, Deutschland uber Alles” from a plea for German unification from the various monarchies in 1841 to Nazi usage to the present use of only the third verse as the national anthem for reunited Germany: admittedly this is not a hymn, but I think the principle remains). How this takes place is quite mysterious to me, but I think both kinds of texts are needed since our worshiping assemblies may respond to both of these kinds of texts.

  30. Fr. Jan Michael Joncas

    Re: #47. I thank Paul Nienaber for his insights and agree that blog-postings may not be the appropriate forum for the kind of interchange that Paul Inwood highlights for us. I’d be interested to hear what other fora Pray Tell readers might suggest.

  31. Fr. Jan Michael Joncas

    Re: #26. I thank Adam Wood for furthering a discussion of how one might critique hymn texts. I tend to explore three aspects of the hymn text under study: 1) the text as a LITERARY artifact (I know that sounds stuffy, but I use it to be able to apply to the text the critical tools one would bring to the study of poetry, while recognizing that hymn texts are song lyrics and the literary analysis must take that into account); 2) the text as a MUSICAL artifact (and what I mean here is that a hymn yokes a text with a tune [and sometimes even a particular harmonization of that tune] and that yoking may be more or less successful); and 3) the text as a RITUAL artifact (i.e., it is intended for congregational singing in particular worship contexts and thus should fulfill [a] certain function[s] within worship. Of course I recognize that it is possible to sing hymns by oneself or even to sing them outside of worship settings, but I think as a rule hymns are intended for sung communal worship and need to be judged partially on how well they fulfill their ritual function.)

    I’d love to hear if others have additional general perspectives from which to critique hymn texts AND if they would venture some “guidelines” in each of the areas I’ve mentioned that might be helpful to consider in crafting these texts (e.g., in considering a hymn text as a LITERARY artifact: Is and how is end-rhyme to be used in a hymn text? Are non-end-rhymed texts as powerful as end-rhymed texts? May and to what extent could slant rhyme be employed? We could flesh out more questions on this topic, as well as consider the use of various meters; vocabulary; imagery; scriptural citation and allusion; progress of thought; etc.)

    I know this would not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I think reflecting on the perspectives and principles by which one critiques hymn texts helps those of us who try to craft them.

    1. @Fr. Jan Michael Joncas – comment #56:
      I second this request. An ongoing and in-depth public decision on hymn-text craft would be both illuminating and fun.

    2. Paul Nienaber SJ

      @Fr. Jan Michael Joncas – comment #56:
      The LITERARY (or perhaps TEXTUAL), MUSICAL (tune-match), and RITUAL evaluations are useful; I would add two more. While one might argue that this is encompassed in the “text as RITUAL artifact.” I think we need attend to both the text as THEOLOGICAL refractor and as SPIRITUALITY indicator. Two examples of the former are fragments (someone help me with references here): “This must be a cross of love, for God to bruise his only Son” and “The heart that sin and sorrow broke is beating once again.” — what christology and soteriology are operative here? Is this consistent with sensus fidelium? I’m sure others can come up with better exemplars. Some of the latter (text as SPIRITUALITY indicator) can be seen in the “devotional” attribute raised earlier in this discussion.

      1. Paul Inwood

        My apologies. A duplicate post. Mods, please delete.

      2. Paul Inwood

        @Paul Nienaber SJ – comment #58:

        Yes, indeed, we do need to attend to the theology of the texts we sing.

        There has been a huge furore in the Presbyterian and Baptist Churches in the US over the hymn “In Christ alone” which contains the lines

        Till on that cross as Jesus died
        The wrath of God was satisfied

        with supporters quoting Romans 5:9 and other scriptures, and opponents wanting to change the second line to “the love of God was magnified”.

        A lot of fundamentalist commentary is around, often from people who proof-text scripture to bolster their opinions. See, for example, http://escapetoreality.org/2013/12/12/jesus-and-the-wrath-of-god/

        This is not just a sectarian problem. The hymn is extremely popular among teenage Roman Catholics in the UK.

        The real problem is that young people hear this sung at concerts and rallies, on YouTube, and even in church, and don’t know enough to understand why there may be a problem. By the time anyone can talk to them, they are in a place where they will accuse adults of being old-fashioned, of not understanding the music they like, etc, etc. At that stage, it is very difficult to dialogue with them about the theological content of the songs that they like.

        This is a huge can of worms that we need to tackle as a matter of extreme urgency. It is, as indicated above, not confined to non-catholic denominations. Roman Catholic publishers are routinely putting out songs that we might prefer that they didn’t, but by the time they are out there it is already too late to pull them back.

  32. Ann Olivier

    Only comments with a full name will be approved.Fr. Joncas —

    To improve our hymns (I’m thinking big — why not?), I say begin by getting help from the experts — get some notable Catholic poets involved. But how?

    Alan Hommerding mentions Dana Gioia’s now classic article about the down-grading of poetry in our culture and what might be done about it. Gioia is himself a notable poet and critic — and a Catholic one. Why not ask him what he thinks? His own talent might even incline him in that direction. Even more pertinent, Gioia might help organize a foundation for the development of new liturgy and support of liturgists. He’s an obviously very practical person — he served as head of the National Endowment for the Arts (!) and apparently did fine job of it. Plus he was a V.P. or something at Beatrice Foods, a giant corporation. (Sounds a bit like Wallace Stevens, doesn’t he?) He might even know some rich ladies and guys
    who would start a foundation for the encouragement and support of liturgical arts and artists of all sorts. No, I don’t know Mr. Gioia, I know only his reputation and some of his poetry.

    There are other notable Catholic poets who might join in a discussion and even write some hymns, e.g., Marie Ponsot and Paul Mariani. They might have some suggestions about involving actual poets in creating new liturgy.

    Some other little suggestions:

    1. Invite poets to participate in liturgical conferences. (You ask musicians, don’t you?)
    2. Let them know that their hymn lyrics might be welcome at music publishers houses.
    3. Ask the best of the Catholic poets for their suggestions.
    4. Ask them to write some hymns.
    5. One doesn’t want to criticize a fellow poet publicly, so in lieu of your suggestions for an internet forum for criticizing the participants’ lyrics, have an occasional thread to compare and contrast a great hymn lyric and/or a poor one.

  33. Charles Culbreth

    5. One doesn’t want to criticize a fellow poet publicly…
    Though I do not personally engage is such discourses, our colleague Adam Wood can attest that over at MusicSacra forum such discussions quite often are had with quite successful and collaboratively satisfying results. With talent such as Adam, Kathleen Pluth, Dr. Paul Ford and others, I can’t recall one instance of personal umbrage taken among those assisting each other craft and “vette” each other’s lyrical constructs. YMMV.

  34. Fr. Jan Michael Joncas

    Re: #63: If Musica Sacra is already doing what I have proposed, I see no reason why Pray Tell would have to host another version of a hymn text writing thread. Could Adam Wood, Kathleen Pluth, Dr. Paul Ford tell us about their experiences, let us know if other hymn writers would be welcome, and what the process is for joining the group?

  35. Fr. Jan Michael Joncas

    re: #58. I thank Paul Nienaber for adding the categories of THEOLOGY and SPIRITUALITY to mine for analyzing/critiquing hymn texts. I confess that I have tended to fold both of these categories into my LITERARY and RITUAL categories, but I think it would be good to make these concerns explicit.

  36. The Musica Sacra Forum is open to all and is, in my opinion, the best gathering place and discussion forum for Catholic music and liturgy.

    It is a LITTLE WEIRD at times, and the constituency trends traditionalist (though certainly not exclusively) with a strong interest in chant, polyphony, and other more “classical” expressions of liturgical music.

    Both Kathy Pluth and myself have openly worked on in-progress hymn texts there, and I think others have too. I just post my text in a new thread, with some comments about what I was trying to do with it, and the community comes out to pitch in.

    The thing to do is to approach it as a work-in-progress. A few people have posted what they thought were DONE AND PERFECTED texts, and got real defensive when people started in with critiques and comments. That is unhelpful and leads to a lot of bickering. But if you are sincerely looking to improve a text, the critiques and commentaries that come out in the forum are very helpful.

    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/

    As an example of a discussion on an in-progress hymn text, here is the conversation surrounding my Ascension Hymn:
    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/8787/hymn-for-ascension/p1

  37. Fr. Jan Michael Joncas

    Re #62: Ann Olivier makes some excellent suggestions about involving practicing poets in the creation of hymn texts. I wonder if the Hymn Society has attempted such outreach; perhaps some members could let us know.

    Without dismissing her suggestion, I have to state that I think writing a hymn text may involve some poetic techniques, but it is also constrained in some ways that writing poetry is not.

    First of all, since a hymn is intended for singing, poets are constrained by meter (consider our discussion of enjambment above) and vocabulary (since words that may produce perfectly fine spoken combinations may be difficult to sing).

    Second, since a hymn is intended to be sung by a congregation, poets are constrained to attempt to articulate the faith of a singing worshiping assembly rather than offer a pure expression of their subjective faith experience. That means that the progress of thought in the hymn should be rather clear (the singer “moves along” as the text unfolds and cannot re-sing a segment of the hymn the way a reader can re-read [and savor] a line of poetry) and the poetic devices used not call attention to themselves (e.g., the poet’s delight in coining new words or finding the mot juste even though it may be archaic or obscure is constrained by the “working vocabulary” of the congregation; admittedly that “working vocabulary” can be stretched by a hymn text, but not to the extent that most contemporary poetry demands).

    Third, since a hymn is intended to express the faith of community at worship, the poet is constrained to see his or her art not as ars gratis artis, but at the service of ritual enactment.

    On occasion, working poets may produce beautifully crafted hymn texts (e.g., Richard Wilbur’s Christmas hymn “A Stable Lamp is Lighted” or Joseph Mary Plunkett’s “I See His Blood Upon the Rose”), but frequently their very skills as a poet militate against writing good hymn lyrics (e.g., Hopkins “Godhead Here in Hiding” or John Milton’s metrical version of Psalm I).

    1. Paul Inwood

      @Fr. Jan Michael Joncas – comment #67:

      I would agree with Michael. There is a difference between a poet and a liturgical textualist. Both English and other language areas have had experience of this. It’s perhaps in the same line as the difference between an art music composer and a liturgical composer, which we have discussed in this forum before.

      One major problem that has often been found with poets is that their imagery is so bold or startling that it gets in the way of praying the text. That is why, for me, many (but not all) of Tom Troeger’s hymn texts often go too far for comfort. I return to Sr Genevieve Glen as an excellent example of the good use of imagery in hymn texts.

  38. Ann Olivier

    Fr. Joncas —

    I realize that hymn-writing has its constraints. However, just as the best musicians can perform many kinds of music and often they can play more than one instrument, so the best poets can write in more than one genre. Granted, these days some poets do not want to write in the old forms, but formalism (which requires pre-set meter, rhyme, etc.) is on the way back. For instance, Gioia is one of the neo-formalists, though he writes free verse as well.

    As to the singability of the words, all poets worth their salt are acutely aware of the sounds of words. That’s one of the main things that makes them poets.

    As to orthodox content, yes, a poet would have to know the Faith. That’s why i suggest Catholic poets, but if they’re ignorant on a points, they can be corrected. Again Gioia might be your man — he was awarded a Dominican medal and the Notre Dame laetare medal. (I don’t know why I’m pushing Gioia, but maybe it’s the Holy Spirit? I”m sure he would at least give some highly competent advice about enlisting highly competent poets.)

    I agree that most poetry these days is autobiographical, but a lot isn’t. And granted not all poet’s particular gifts are what hymn-writing requires, and I can see that Hopkins’ gift for highly original rhythm would make it hard for him to write singable hymns — he had to work against his grain. I don’t know Wilbur’s hymns, but he’s certainly among the best American poets today. He also might give some good advice. I’ve read he’s quite a religious person. Episcopalian, maybe?

    I’m not saying that amateurs’ work can’t be first-rate. It just isn’t likely to be. Still, sincerity can bring out unusual depth, I think. And it seems to me that most of us want lyrics that are *deeply felt” though not necessarily original or subtle or complex. Simplicity is often a tremendous virtue. But writing great simple stuff isn’t usually a simple process, though for the rare Shakespeares of this world it does seem to be.

  39. I write both non-hymn poetry and hymn texts, and it is very much a different thing.

    There are a lot of different things I could point out in the difference (At least in my approach). But here’s just a couple:

    Form and style – The biggest thing for me is that in poetry I’m often deliberately clever or literary, playing with conventions or expectations. I also employ humor, puns, and references to culture (high and low), all of which would be inappropriate or at least weird in a hymn.

    Content – Poetry can be universal and eternal, but I find – in my own writing – that poetry represents a particular moment in time. It is specific. Hymn texts shouldn’t be generic of course – but they should serve as well today as tomorrow. A poem I write might represent how I’m thinking about a subject right now, whereas a hymn needs to express how the Church thinks about that subject for all time.

    Some of my poems, just for comparison to my (poorly typed) hymn texts above:
    http://adammichaelwood.github.io/reunion/
    http://adammichaelwood.github.io/on-emptiness/

  40. Come to think of it –

    Another difference – and this is really just me –
    I KNOW when a poem I’ve written is done.
    Also, I consider them as belonging to me.

    My hymn texts – I feel that there is always opportunity for improvement, and I encourage people to adapt them or fix them as they feel they need to – I consider them as belonging to the Church.


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