Where are the younger Catholics??

Folks, this is really important, and really serious. Kaya Oakes writes at Commonweal:

For several years now, I’ve suspected that my entire generation had vanished from Catholicism. On retreats, I was surrounded by seniors, Baby Boomers, and college students. At Mass I was joined by gray-haired people and (fewer) college students. In the women’s group I helped found at my parish, at vigils to support American sisters, in the pages of Catholic magazines, on the internet: more seniors, more Boomers, a sprinkling of college students, and forty-two-year-old me. Apparently, I am the last Gen-X Catholic on earth.

I suppose some would say that she writes from the Left Coast, what do you expect out there? But it’s not only there. We in the more religious Midwest (or those in the quite religious South) can take little consolation that we’re five minutes behind these trends.

I suppose it won’t be long before some idiot says the problem is modern catechesis. As if pouring more information into the heads of bored young people would make a dent in massive societal trends. (Has anyone else noticed that as catechetical materials have gotten doctrinally more exacting in the last ten or twenty years, the rate of defection has only increased?)

Do you ever ponder what institutional Catholicism will look like in 10 or 20 years if this continues?

All this is depressing and alarming. Someone cheer me up and calm me down.

awr

 

Anthony Ruff, OSB

Fr. Anthony Ruff, OSB, is a monk of St. John's Abbey. He teaches liturgy, liturgical music, and Gregorian chant at St. John's University School of Theology-Seminary. He is widely published and frequently presents across the country on liturgy and music. He is the author of Sacred Music and Liturgical Reform: Treasures and Transformations, and of Responsorial Psalms for Weekday Mass: Advent, Christmas, Lent, Easter. He does priestly ministry at the neighboring community of Benedictine sisters in St. Joseph.

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Comments

41 responses to “Where are the younger Catholics??”

  1. Thomas Dalby

    There are plenty of Gen Xers out there, we’re just not that likely to be found “In the women’s group …, at vigils to support American sisters, in the pages of Catholic magazines”. We’re on the internet, we’re in our parishes; we may have different interests and preoccupations to our parents’ and grandparents’ generations, but we are still here.

    Reply
    1. Elisabeth Ahn

      @Thomas Dalby – comment #1:

      “…but we are still here.”

      Yes, we are, as am I.

      ETA: I am actually surrounded by young Catholic college students, seeing that my church is in the heart of a large (non-Catholic) college campus.

      Reply
  2. Timothy Johnston

    Fr. Anthony, I often ponder your question, especially now that I work with college students. I can say they are hungry for a deeper relationship, but distracted and in some cases unwilling to take the time to nurture it. In these past 2 years, I have learned that their experience of church is much different than mine. I am still trying to name what that difference is and how it will affect our communities long term. I am one of those “idiots” that thinks catechesis has a role to play. It’s been bad for a long time (I grew up in the “let’s color” today generation). I think we’ve focused too much on memorizing and not true catechesis (maybe I am still learning what that is too) where one is invited into relationship and can fall in love with the risen Christ. I think we have to provide richer experiences of prayer and worship. I know there’s no perfect answer, but I know my heart is deeply saddened when I think about this movement. When I talk with college friends or even family, I have a difficult time understanding why they no longer attend Mass, etc. I can comprehend all the reasons they provide (e.g. sex abuse, stance on the LGBT community), but I still have a hard time putting into words why I stay and what my experience is and has been. Sorry, that probably didn’t help brighten your day.

    Reply
    1. John Swencki

      @Timothy Johnston – comment #2:
      Timothy, God bless your crucial work with the college kids.
      In my work with young people I have found the church connects best and is most effective when it helps young people come to understand themselves and their life (their relationships, their struggles, their dreams, etc) in the light of faith, when God can be seen somehow moving and acting in the concrete circumstances of their personal lives. When the church can somehow help young people discern how God is already “there” with them and for them. But it takes time and effort, and willingness on the part of the pastoral minister to become “incarnate” in the young person’s world– affirming their goodness and offering them the Gospel in terms/language they understand. To give them opportunities to personally participate in Gospel mission and then to reflect on that experience.
      In many ways and on many levels, the church and young people were made for each other. But we’ve stopped speaking a language they understand. We’ve stopped “re-mythologizing” [in the best sense of that word] the Gospel in terms with which they can relate. We’ve stopped modelling something they want to imitate. We’ve stopped being –at least visibly– the kind of dynamic, caring, accepting, daring community they long for. We sometimes make Jesus seem to be just one more alternative rather than THE way, truth and life. Alot of young people don’t get the idea Jesus is that Way for us.

      Reply
      1. Elisabeth Ahn

        @John Swencki – comment #4:

        we’ve stopped speaking a language they understand. We’ve stopped “re-mythologizing” [in the best sense of that word] the Gospel in terms with which they can relate. We’ve stopped modelling something they want to imitate.

        This has been very true for me.

        But I stayed, although like Timothy @ comment #2, I cannot quite explain why or how I managed to stay. I just did, even while merely going through the motions oftentimes.

        It’s an interesting question though: what does it mean for the Church to speak the language young people — or people in general for that matter — can understand?

      2. John Swencki

        @Elisabeth Ahn – comment #7:
        Hi Elizabeth, this 60 year old trying to speak the language of young people would at best sound ridiculous and at worst phony. But I can try to discover what they already value and understand, the kind of things that make them perk up and listen. I can show them I really am interested in their world and many times I ask them to explain things to me,since there is so much more they know than I. I would listen alot. I can treat them with dignity and integrity and give them the same consideration I would give any person. They would know I am always delighted to see them and am glad to spend time with them. I wouldn’t try to correct their every mistake so that they could be as good and smart as I [HA!] but –like Francis– help them experience some more basic fundamental things, like God’s overwhelming love, forgiveness and forebearance. I would try to show them I really do care and it would be safe to “let me in”.
        Trying to do at least some of that, our good young people wouldn’t give a hoot about what kind of vocabulary I use or whether or not I wear jeans and play video games. I try. They try. We communicate. And then I try to stay out of God’s way.

  3. Kaya Oakes

    Thank you for sharing my essay and raising these questions. As someone who went through a year of RCIA as an adult, I would say my catechesis was excellent. But then again, that may be because I was there voluntarily. As the graduate of a Catholic college, however, I can attest to the fact that in my twenties, I was deeply suspicious of (and disinterested in) being spoon fed religion at the age when so many people need to step out of their faith tradition in order to understand it better. Perhaps Catholics just need some form of the Amish Rumspringa. Or maybe we just need to be more compassionate to younger Catholics when they start to ask questions and have doubts. If we just shrug it off as generational, that does nothing to bridge these growing gaps.

    Not to grossly honk my own horn, but I wrote a related essay for America earlier this summer which may provide a bit more consolation. http://americamagazine.org/issue/article/nones-are-alright

    Reply
  4. Claire Mathieu

    The same thing happened to me when I tried to find partners to play bridge, or did some volunteering with a local (non-Catholic) association, or looked up groups of weekend hikers. Most members are either retirees or college students. Why? Because, between developing their career and raising a family, the great majority of people who are between the age of 25 and 50 are too busy already.

    Reply
  5. Norman Borelli

    The are probably many reasons but one that must be looked at has been the rise of the “religious right” and the complete failure of the Catholic hierarchy, particularly a good number of American bishops, to differentiate the church from it and the willingness of many to embrace it in contradiction on a host of issues addressed by Catholic Social Teaching. The result has been a message that those who have been troubled by a lack of daylight between the hierarchy and the increasingly shrill and unhinged Republican party have been getting — you are unwelcome and unwanted in this church.

    It does not help matters when the message “a smaller church is a more faithful church” is also expressed and more emphasis is placed on what type of vestments should be worn and orders over who can and can’t participate in Holy Thursday foot washing rather than creating a welcoming environment both on the parish and wider church level.

    Reply
  6. Karl Liam Saur

    Well, may I suggest something:

    That the Church of Mere Moralism does not set particularly enduring roots, and its crop tends to be more brittle than resilient. By Mere Moralism, I do NOT mean only the Pure & Docile Orthodoxy variety, though historically that has been the dominant variety; I also include the Social Gospel Orthopraxy variety. Each in its myriad variations, for that matter. Moralism is not discipleship; theosis is.

    Theosis is always hard, no matter the cultural soil, though the dimensions of what is hard might vary. In First World 21st century culture, instant gratification (even of merely the sensory variety for the very poor) makes it especially hard: we can gratify ourselves instantly in ways our ancestors (well, those without slaves and much property) could never imagine. We especially resist the idea that spiritual maturity in adulthood necessarily involves episodes – sometimes vast episodes – of desolations rather than consolations because that is the way we sense our hunger for God, which is the only way we can be truly humble (rather than modest, which is a different thing). As has been said by many a spiritual director who is faced with someone who has suffered from spiritual dryness and darkness for years: it is the ache that is a sign of the desire for God’s presence that is itself the sign of something even greater – God’s presence with us.

    It’s not, however, how we are largely trained to identify the presence of God in our current culture. We identify it almost exclusively through consolations. And certainly God can be wonderfully present through consolations.

    But I have to say priests and ministers are as allergic to address this in their homilies and other forms of ministry (except perhaps to those facing death) as their flocks: we flee it because we are so scared of it.

    Until it is engaged forthrightly and without fear, though, I expect more people will stop seeking. That is the nature of an existentially anxious age.

    So, to the preachers here, how often do you unfearfully but tenderly walk up with the folks in your pews to what seems to be the threshold of the yawning chasm of the Great Absence and avoid filling it with platitudes of therapy and moralism?

    Reply
  7. Joan Watson

    As a 20-something, I’d like to report that I’m here too. 🙂
    Here in Nashville we actually have a vibrant young adult community that is thriving, praying together, studying together, serving together.
    I do think catechesis is key (sorry if that makes me an idiot) but the real key is evangelization. We have been trying to catechize two generations who have never been evangelized.
    Sherry Weddell’s Forming Intentional Disciples should be read but every priest, DRE, ministry leader, etc.
    In my experience here- and my experience with World Youth Days- the institutional Church has nothing to fear. We are alive and well.

    Reply
  8. Sean Peters

    Suburbanization and the decline of the ghetto undoubtedly have played a large role in creating the conditions for falling numbers of young Catholics. People aren’t immersed in a religious environment, or at least not a Catholic one…or a Protestant one. Catholics “arrived” and joined the secular establishment, becoming conservatives and liberals like everyone else. To me, at least, neither the liberal NCR nor the big Republicans of Catholic Answers truly represent the Church. All the evils of the world can’t be reduced to abortion (for conservatives) or lack of inclusivity (for liberals). Where is the Church for those who are not only against wars of aggression, the pillaging of the economy, etc. but also against sexual liberation and abortion?

    Reply
    1. Jordan Zarembo

      I’m in my early 30’s and I’m going gray quickly. I’m not sure what the genetics of hair color has to do with age, let alone perception, sagacity, or (as in my case) a lack of these qualities.

      @Sean Peters – comment #12:

      Where is the Church for those who are not only against wars of aggression, the pillaging of the economy, etc. but also against sexual liberation and abortion?

      Although this is self-evident, it must be repeated: the Church is a political institution and society. The conjunction of belief and politics often results in a “politically-correct” speech where persons are afraid of saying something which might appear to be against Church teaching. Others who are used to freewheeling conversations with few limitations, such as are encouraged at universities, are often surprised to find that still others do not wish to argue multiple perspectives in a church setting.

      Sometimes belief is a solitary road with few companions. A respect for the reality that the Church is never a space for discussion and argumentation without any boundaries at all often clarifies the apparent intractability of others we meet inside the vestibule.

      Reply
  9. Chuck Middendorf

    Two quick thoughts/observations. People can ask for clarification, I can go deeper.

    1. I see churches packed Gen Y, but less so Gen X. Whatever people think of JP2 liturgically, there’s a generation of people shaped by him, and they are all in they are 18-35 now!

    2. Basically rule of any age group or demographic: “If you pay attention to them, they will come.” (women, seniors, gays and lesbians, homeless, etc.) The pastor of my parish “pays attention” to young adults, and as a result, the church is packed with them. Weddings, weddings, weddings,… Young adults lead committees, etc. that in other parishes the old man or woman who ran it for years is in charge. Our finance council, liturgy committee, and communications committee are definitely mostly 35 and under.

    And all this…from a Gen X’er who sticks out as old in our urban downtown parish. (Lots of seniors too, because we have zero steps in our church, and thus lots of retirees in condos come too.)

    Reply
  10. Dale Rodrigue

    I think Chuck M hit the nail on the head. Pay attention to them. I also look around and see lots of white hair (I’m in my 50’s and getting white too) and have been perplexed to see that we aren’t being replaced. My two children have always attended catholic school, K-12 and one attends a catholic college. They are not as “religious” as I would have hoped but they absolutely consider themselves Catholics and are upright and moral.

    Gen X’ers have seen the sex abuse scandal, bishops comparing Obama to Hitler and Stalin, read lots of stuff out of Rome, the curial intrigues, a pope who liked to dress up speak latin and talk about a remnant church. All turnoffs to most.

    BUT cheer up Fr AWR, we’ve turned the corner!

    I hear my kids and others, including gen X’ers, talk about this “new pope” and change. Suddenly, we’ve got their attention. A good sense of what society thinks can be found in comments about online news articles. In the past 5+ yrs any news article about the RC church was met with comments about 7-8/10 against the church. It was always heart aching to read them. Now it’s flipped, any article about the RC church esp Francis is 8/10 POSITIVE!

    Now that we have their attention what do we do next? What seems to be working in the religious world are large evangelical churches with large number of gen x’ers. Why? Attention is paid to them. The preaching is about Jesus, Jesus and Jesus and how He can affect their life in a positive way. This is their message. Our message? Obsession with bedroom issues and rules, no gays, no women priests, no artificial birth control, that’s all they hear. What about Jesus? or is everything in Catholicism “wrapped up in a condom”, using Francis’ own words.

    Gen Xer’s already know the rules but we as a church need to:
    1. Pay attention to them and go get them.
    2. Preach about whats in it for them and not preach what they have to obey. After all it is called the “Good News”.
    3. Pray for Francis and his reforms.

    They’re waiting, listening and don’t want to go elsewhere but do WANT to come in but can smell hypocrisy a mile away.

    This may be our last chance.

    Reply
    1. Thomas Dalby

      @Dale Rodrigue – comment #14:
      You might want to try undertaking the listening exercise first, before you write the prescription.

      Reply
      1. Dale Rodrigue

        @Thomas Dalby – comment #17:
        Such a nice snarky comment directed at me Thomas, what has you so confuddled about my comment to:
        1. Pay attention to them and go get them.
        2. Preach about whats in it for them and not preach what they have to obey. After all it is called the “Good News”.
        3. Pray for Francis and his reforms.

  11. Fr. Jarrod Waugh, CSC

    Count another idiot here. The places I see a lot of hope and great energy are with leaders like Fr. Bob Barron and Word on Fire. Seminary numbers have nudged UP lately. Some orders of sisters, too. (Guess which ones)

    It is endlessly fascinating to me that people of my age and “ecclesiology” cohort-this will be something of a generalization, certainly open to correction-and those of the boomer cohort can look at the same data, the same “symptoms,” and diagnose opposite ailments. I believe that our love for the church is the same, but two pretty different perspectives.

    I agree with Sean, above, and feel that we need to help cultivate a new kind of Catholic culture, not merely a reanimation of preconciliar culture, but a reclamation of those forms which can still bear fruit today. Go into the cellar and bring out the best of the old and the new.

    Reply
    1. Bill deHaas

      @Fr. Jarrod Waugh, CSC – comment #15:
      Funny – thought that is what VII did and was all about? If only the curia had followed and implemented VII. As my favorite moral theology prof and peritus at VII said when asked about VII – “it would be nice if we tried it”.

      Reply
  12. Jonathan F. Sullivan

    Another idiot here — so much so that I’ve spent the past five years working in diocesan catechetical ministry. But I’d rather speak here as a member of Gen-X (albeit one of the last of that generation, and having many sympathies with the ardor — if not always the forms — the millennials bring to the faith).

    Please don’t preach to us and don’t try to engage in listening sessions where you pepper us with questions. A couple years ago a national catechetical convention held a group session for young Catholics. A couple Boomers decided to “sit in to listen” (without an invitation) and immediately started asking us questions about our generation(s). It felt incredible off-putting and intrusive — we were not allowed to lead the conversation in any way but were expected to serve as a “resource” for their pet projects. The moderator tried her best but they wouldn’t take the hint.

    So I agree with Thomas Daley. Listen first — don’t ask questions, but sit and listen respectfully. Once some trust has been built we can move on to the questions.

    Reply
  13. Dale Rodrigue

    Jonathan, a note about my statement on “preaching”. I was referring to what the Church “preaches” in general and from the pulpit or at least the prevailing impression of what it preaches. I did not mean, nor do I advocate “boomers” preaching to any age group or anybody for that matter. That ‘s for the Church to do (and change it’s message as I stated).
    I am sorry that a group of boomers hijacked the listening session and turned it into a recruitment session for pet projects. Regardless of the age group, one should always listen first. I don’t think anybody here posting comments thinks otherwise. Believe me, despite what Thomas Dalby assumes about me, I do lots of listening, mostly to complaints about the Church and what it “preaches”.
    If your session already had Gen-x there at the session then they are already “in the door”. But what about those 26+ million US Catholics who have left the Church since 2001, who don’t go to any church activities or sessions, are lapsed and not “in the door”but still waiting for some good news in order to return? Their source of information about the Church? The news media!
    I think pope Francis is correct to take us in a different direction and IMO firmly believe that we are starting to round the corner. I think Francis is edging us there too, he’s honest and provocative and that gets everyone’s attention.
    ….and I was responding to AWR’s original comment: “someone cheer me up”. I hope I did help cheer AWR up at least a little bit.

    Reply
    1. Thomas Dalby

      @Dale Rodrigue – comment #20:
      Dale

      As Jonathan Sullivan highlights, it’s your point 2 that is the problem: many of my contemporaries feel that their parents’ generation has forfeited the right to preach (and that is more closely linked to the divorce epidemic than to the abuse crisis).

      I am sorry that you feel personally wounded by my comments, that really wasn’t my intention.

      Reply
      1. Dale Rodrigue

        @Thomas Dalby – comment #23:
        Hello Thomas no need to be sorry. I am recovering from Influenza and am in a touchy irritable mood! What hurts me is what is bothering AWR, we’re losing members and it is indeed scary. We are ALL the Church, it’s ours and we all have a stake in seeing it succeed. I am always encouraged by everyone posting here at PTB, if everyone was so involved just think of the potential Church we would have!

        The question, I think, that it all boils down to this (and secularists have been pounding away at this): Why do we need the church anymore?

        As Todd said, some may think the Church has nothing more to offer, and that gives me a cold shudder to the heart because he’s right, some do think that way.

        We have to come up with a convincing answer, and there are many answers, but with all of us working together, it’s our Church, it’s the Church’s future.

  14. Todd Flowerday

    “Others … are often surprised to find that still others do not wish to argue multiple perspectives in a church setting.”

    Not intending to pick on my friend Jordan, I do want to observe that there’s a secular assumption in play here: that a difference of opinion is always about an argument.

    I have a friend who loves hard cider. It’s okay, I suppose, but I prefer a nice dark beer or an ale. He doesn’t. We can share a drink without more than a good-natured poke about what’s getting drunk because there are more important things to talk about.

    For church people who can’t discern the difference between dialogue and arguing, and don’t seem to care to note the difference, four words: it’s not about you.

    As for the drain on youth, it’s my sense the biggest hemorrhage is between the ages of 7 and 10. We’re losing them to the culture of sport, the culture of celebrity, and parental apathy about religion. Catholic schools, especially high schools, sometimes work against the parish, creating their own subculture, and modeling themselves on secular institutions, driven by … sports, celebrity, and parental abdication of raising teens.

    From my view in campus ministry, we have a vexing combination of a wonderful, grace-driven embrace of adult faith, and a very fruitful field awaiting the simple things: water, sun, fertilizer, or rather, the Word and Sacraments. Dale’s first point could be our motto: pay attention and go get them.

    Reply
    1. Peter Haydon

      @Todd Flowerday – comment #22:
      Todd
      I am not sure what you mean by “the culture of sport”. One thing that you might have in mind is that many sports clubs train the children on Sunday morning. Luckily we have a Sunday evening Mass to go to but, with school on Monday, that is not ideal. Now a Mass at 8.00 or 8.30 am would not mean a much earlier departure from home than on a weekday and might finish in time for the sport. Our earliest local Mass is at 9.30 am. The rugby academy starts at 9.00 for the boys and 10.30 for the girls so morning Mass is not compatible with rugby.
      I suspect that the same applies to football and other sports.

      Reply
      1. Todd Flowerday

        @Peter Haydon – comment #24:
        I think sports are a major secular religion in the US, and the involvement of many millions goes far deeper than practice and game schedules. I’ve lived in two NFL cities, and while I know at most 70,000 out of a few million went to the game, many more than that had parties and such. If mom and dad are hosting or going to a football party, they won’t have time to bother chauffeuring their kids to church. Like they do on school days.

        One high school coach at a Catholic school called a practice on Good Friday morning–wiping out about half the rehearsal for Stations later that day at 3pm.

        Regarding Dale’s point, I absolutely think we have more to offer people. I’m not sure some Catholics, including clergy, actually believe that.

      2. Peter Haydon

        @Todd Flowerday – comment #25:
        Thank you Todd.
        Here the rugby academy has over 700 children. The girls today went surfing after a training session on the beach: brilliant. I am not sure about an NFL city: our rugby team was promoted to the English Championship (4 promotions in 5 seasons) and has just started the second season. It attracts large crowds: 2,500 – 3,000 or >3% of the island’s population.
        One of the boys on my daughter’s first Holy Communion class said that he hoped to be Pope whilst still playing rugby. Each session meant missing that week’s training. Obviously the sacrament is more important. I wish that it was easier to do both. One thinks of the Rev Stinker Pinker created by PG Wodehouse.
        You are quite right about parents driving their children around to events and this makes the w/e quite busy. Clergy do not always show their appreciation of this.
        There is an annual pilgrimage of sporting people to Lourdes (shorts are allowed in the Sanctuaries then) so there is hope.

    2. Jordan Zarembo

      @Todd Flowerday – comment #22:

      Todd: Not intending to pick on my friend Jordan, I do want to observe that there’s a secular assumption in play here: that a difference of opinion is always about an argument. […] For church people who can’t discern the difference between dialogue and arguing, and don’t seem to care to note the difference, four words: it’s not about you.
      [my ellipsis]

      No need to apologize Todd, your points are well-taken. All the world is not a television roundtable, where talking-heads test the upper limits of their shouting voice. You are right that dialogue requires a definite respect for others in the conversation, even if their arguments strike a listener as not reasonable. This is especially true in the context of belief and especially among fellow believers. The goal is to build commonweal, not tear it down through pedantry or intellectual bullying. I am most guilty of these points.

      Personal conviction cannot be confused, however, with magical thinking. Magical thinking drives a person to think and behave as if every thought or statement he or she considers or utters carries significant importance for their status within a community and ultimately their salvation. As someone who was a fundamentalist for many years, I tend to approach many “very religious” persons with the apprehension that they tailor all of their actions and statements with a view towards what they consider to be “correct” according to their very limited sphere of influence.

      Persons of any age who have experienced fundamentalist belief even in passing often do not want to have anything to do with religion in general. Often this apprehension stems from previous encounters with the magical mindset. I am convinced that many Catholics who try to reach younger adults do not sufficiently consider that while argumentation is often not charitable, transparency and a willingness to encounter any question rationally is necessary.

      Reply
  15. Chuck Middendorf

    For all of the talk of sports time and culture, I’ll repeat my original statement “pay attention to young people.” That includes their schedules.

    That’s why our 7 pm Sunday evening Mass is packed with young adults. I’m sure they “learned” the Sunday evening Mass from the colleges and Newman Centers. But also, it means not waking up after a Saturday night out on the town, picking between other Sunday options, etc. And then, they can also hit the local bar after Mass with their peers right after Mass. Is it crass? Perhaps, but I don’t think so, that’s where they are, and might as well pay attention to their interests.

    Reply
  16. Norman Borelli

    In regards to Generation X, of which I am a member, it should be noted that my generation has found itself sandwiched in between two much, much larger generations and thus, like the Silent Generation that was in between the WWII generation and the Baby Boomer generation has had a tendency to be overshadowed.

    How that translates into church, well, this may not be a universal experience for my generation but many of us who were involved in church life, say in campus ministry or other young adult ministries, eventually found ourselves shoved aside when the boomers — who had dropped out of church to do the drugs, sex, and rock and roll thing — ended up returning only to be upset that mass was no longer in Latin, the communion rails were gone, and other changes brought about by VII.

    As I say that probably isn’t a universal experience of my generation of Catholics who have participated in church life but I do have friends who left largely because of this as they saw VII give way to the “reform of the reform.”

    “Pay attention” is good advice and given the sheer size of the boomer generation and the millennials it is probably easy to ignore the Xers, but not quite so easy to understand why they may not filling up the pews.

    Reply
  17. Dale Rodrigue

    One really good point brought up by Todd, Peter and others is the reality of competing events whether it be sports, shopping, etc.
    It’s a different world out there than even 10 yrs ago. Time is indeed money. If you’re in sports there is both an expected time investment as well as a monetary investment in sports equipment. Most families now have both a working mom and dad, some work on weekends. Sometimes they can only get shopping done on Sunday. They connect via texting, twitter etc. Time management and obligations are so stressful that now the majority, yes the majority, of Americans take antidepressants. That’s how bad it has become.
    So why have the competition of Church vs sports or Church vs food shopping etc. Let’s begin by making it easier to attend Church. This is not juxtapositioning Church with sports to see which is more important. It’s just reality and smart time management. So why not a Sunday Mass at 6:00 pm? Stores may be closing at that time, it’s early evening on a Sunday, not too late to attend and so forth. For example, I always thought a Thanksgiving Day mass early that evening was a great idea. Usually early Mass that morning is not well attended and is not practical for many people. But “after” the feast gathering and all the festivities, putting everything aside and gathering together at church to give thanks to the One that we are supposed to be thanking on that day makes more sense IMO.
    I agree with Norman, no one group should be or more importantly feel that they are ignored. There isn’t a “one size fits all” solution.

    As Chuck M. so eloquently stated, we must “pay attention”.

    Reply
  18. Michelle Francl-Donnay

    Fr. Jarrod Waugh, CSC : Count another idiot here. The places I see a lot of hope and great energy are with leaders like Fr. Bob Barron and Word on Fire. Seminary numbers have nudged UP lately. Some orders of sisters, too. (Guess which ones)

    Data can be useful. Women are equally likely to join a conservative order as a non-conservative order. (There are fewer conservative choices, so the number per congregation is larger, but overall, conservatism isn’t more – or less – attractive.)

    Data is not the plural of anecdote and I’m curious as to what the data show from either CARA or Pew for participation in parish life and other religious activities over the different age cohorts.

    Reply
    1. Todd Flowerday

      @Michelle Francl-Donnay – comment #31:
      The other factor, not often cited by some Catholics, is that women have choices to enter a cloistered order or join an order in the mendicant/beguine/apostolic tradition. Through the centuries, the latter have been held in great suspicion by some in the hierarchy. The recent LCWR/CDF dust-up is just same ol’ same ol’.

      It might have been CARA, but a recent study found that clergy were spectacularly unprepared if not disinclined to encourage women’s vocations to any sort of religious life, let alone non-cloistered orders. They just don’t know enough.

      I’m still convinced, however, that we do a tragically poor job in forming people for the vocation of baptism. If we were to do that, I think religious and ministry vocations would take care of themselves, that people would make better choices for marriage, find meaning in the single life, and be a far more attractive enterprise to young adults.

      Reply
    2. Fr. Jarrod Waugh, CSC

      @Michelle Francl-Donnay – comment #31:
      I’d start here: http://www.nrvc.net/mythbusters I don’t like to use the political terms “conservative” and “liberal” in reference to the faith. And how can we helpfully classify what makes an order more, say “traditional,” perhaps? It isn’t black-and-white, that’s for sure. Here’s what young people are looking for, and you can classify it as “traditional” or whatever if you wish.

      (This first one is just for apostolic communities, not contemplative)- The work/mission of the order. Living in common. Working in common. Fidelity to the Holy Father and the Church’s teachings. Daily Mass and common devotions or prayers with their brother/sister religious. Taking the vows seriously.

      But I’d recommend reading the whole report, granted 2009 is a few years ago now, but ANECDOTALLY these trends have continued, from what I hear.

      You can find a link to the whole study here: http://www.nrvc.net/study_overview/?return_url=study_overview

      scroll down to under “Study Results” and click the link that contains the “Complete Report” For those in a hurry, just start with page 51.

      “The average age of entrance is 30 for men (median 27) and 32 for women (median 29). However, there is a ten year age gap in average and median entrance age between women in LCWR institutes and women in CMSWR institutes. Among respondents from LCWR institutes, the average entrance age is 36 and the median is 34; among respondents from CMSWR institutes, the average entrance age is 26 and the median is 23.5”

      Reply
  19. Fr. Jack Feehilu

    The crux of this matter, I believe, is an institutional church that has always sought members over and against making disciples. We have been attempting to catechize children and adults who have not experienced conversion. Without conversion there is no deep personal relationship with Christ that gives rise to a desire and readiness for catechesis. In the early 70’s the US bishops wrote a pastoral letter calling all dioceses and parishes to make the formation of adults their number one priority. That call has been repeated many times sense, but the focus for the most part remains on children’s programs. We say that parents are the primary formers of their children’s faith but what kind of faith can they pass on if they themselves are not yet committed disciples. AA has a wonderful saying, “half measures availed us nothing.” We have employed all kinds of half measures and one result is young adults who never noticed a strong connection between their parents church beliefs and practices and what they call the real world. A world of doubt, confusion, and random acts of violence. A world which easily confuses intimacy with sexual activity. A world led by political leaders who can’t be trusted. A world in which fantasy is easily mistaken for reality. A world of texters and sexters in which little communication takes place. A world that condemns religion while building a new spirituality that focuses on doing good. I think Francis knows this and wants to model what it looks like to really love Jesus Christ so much that we want to make his mission our own. After which comes the catechesis for those willing to pay the cost of discipleship. We should have modest expectations.

    Reply
  20. Scott Pluff

    I enjoy hearing my wife’s perspective on going to church. While I’m working full-time in a parish 35 miles away, she and our school-aged daughters do the typical Catholic thing: usually attend a weekend Mass but not always, while searching for a church that feels like home. She has a few basic expectations: a priest that seems like a “real person” and not too stiff, a homily that tells her something practical about living the faith (as opposed to exegetical or theological lectures), decent music that she can sing along with, a welcoming feeling (or at least not unwelcoming), and a church-that-looks-like-a-church.

    Thankfully she has found such a parish, and it happens to be within walking distance of our home. But in her search, she also found: priests with strange or unusual ways of celebrating the Mass including one who intensely says the words of institution right into the chalice followed by a _very_ prolonged elevation, a priest who presses the congregation to give more money but everyone knows he drives a new luxury car and owns a vacation home at a ski resort, music that is simply unbearable, homilies that ramble on for 10 minutes and don’t convey a single coherent thought, congregations that attract an updated version of the old “diamonds, furs and Cadillacs” crowd, places that pride themselves on getting you out in 30 minutes and many more. These are all found within a 10-minute drive of our home. It’s a jungle out there!

    Reply
    1. John Swencki

      @Scott Pluff – comment #36:
      A friend of mine, a young physician, compared his family’s search for a spiritual home to the various kinds of available medical facilities: there’s everything from Emergency Rooms to teaching hospitals to community hospitals to street corner medical “Quick Stops”. Depending on one’s physical/medical need, any one of those might be appropriate in a given situation. But when it comes to spiritual care, some Catholics exclusively seek “Emergency Rooms”, visited only during times of trouble. Some prefer the “Quick Stops”, visited for baptism, 1st Communionc, Confirmations, weddings. The teaching hospital (parish) is favored by those who like the innovative, creative, the-latest-in-liturgy. He’s still looking for his community hospital/parish.

      Reply
  21. Sean Peters

    Behind the declining numbers lies the lack of a drive to expand the Church. So much of the contemporary Church is resigned to failure. The conservatives say we need a smaller, more faithful Church. Many of the liberals of the 60s decried the physical presence of the Church and pushed for the closing of Catholic schools. I think the doomsayers have put the Church into a vise that is crushing the Church in many places. I was heavily involved in trying to stop the closing of our local parishes and repeatedly warned the pastor and diocese that many would quit the Church altogether if the consolidation plan went through. Of course the plan went through and attendance has dropped. Not once has any effort been expended to bring people back. The same has happened in numerous other locations in the US. It seems most of the leaders of the American Church are content to watch the Church die, while raking in $$$ by selling off assets.

    Reply
    1. Scott Pluff

      @Sean Peters – comment #38:
      An important point. I have been disappointed to see so many parishes close in North St. Louis, an area once home to immigrant Catholics, now populated largely by poor urban African Americans. The thought seems to be, “All the Catholics moved out to the suburbs, so let’s close the parishes.” There is little effort to evangelize the mostly unchurched people in those neighborhoods. Maybe they have needs the Catholic Church can meet, firstly salvation and grace from the sacraments.

      What would have happened if the French Jesuit missionaries who landed here 300 years ago had said, “Well, no Catholics here, let’s move on!”

      Reply
    2. John Swencki

      @Sean Peters – comment #38:
      It’d be instructive to know precisely how much $$ the sale of church properties has brought in. According to some, the figure may not be as high as some think as, in their opinion, some properties were sold at bargain basement prices.
      Had a conversation with the owner of a restaurant who stopped by my table. He told me that after having been away from the church for a number of years he went to Mass once. He more or less snickered at me, “I ain’t missed nothing!”
      If we iinvite people to “come home”, what will they find if they do? Will they, too, decide they “ain’t missed nothing”?

      Reply
  22. Sean Peters

    Yes…I agree that evangelization of African-Americans in the US often has been poor. Many American Catholic pundits of decades past accused the US Church of institutional racism (whatever that is), while neglecting or even overtly criticizing efforts to convert African-Americans. I think there has been prejudice against African-Americans in the US Church. However, this prejudice is not equivalent to the degrading racism of the Klan but perhaps something closer to enmity between ethnic groups as was seen between the Irish and Polish. Unlike the Irish and Polish, however, Blacks never have had the numbers to demand much attention from the US Church.

    As for the parish/church closings, there seems to be quite a lot of corruption involved, especially out East. Consider the scandal of the Follieri Group.

    Reply

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