{"id":5140,"date":"2010-11-06T09:16:31","date_gmt":"2010-11-06T14:16:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/?p=5140"},"modified":"2010-11-06T10:53:30","modified_gmt":"2010-11-06T15:53:30","slug":"on-a-lapsed-symbol","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2010\/11\/06\/on-a-lapsed-symbol\/","title":{"rendered":"On a Lapsed Symbol"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>DF: They won\u2019t understand your intention.<br \/>\nDWF: But it\u2019s not complicated. I just have a question. Questions are what academics do.<br \/>\nDF: But it\u2019s a politicized issue, and people will think you\u2019re advocating one thing or denying another thing.<br \/>\nDWF: But surely I can raise an observation.<br \/>\nDF: It\u2019s your skin. Go ahead.<br \/>\nDWF: Well, all I said was it dawned on me one day that in the twenty years since I became a Catholic I\u2019ve only seen the rite of purifying the vessels about half a dozen times.<br \/>\nDF: So you are agitating for a return to the Latin mass!<br \/>\nDWF: Where did you get that? I just made the observation that something that used to be a part of the rite has quietly disappeared.<br \/>\nDF: Not so quietly. Remember the headlines in 2006: \u201cExtraordinary ministers of Eucharist barred from purifying vessels.\u201d<br \/>\nDWF: Yes, and that was from the Catholic News Service, not even a blog site.<br \/>\nDF: Exactly. The U.S. Bishops asked for an indult in 2002 permitting extraordinary ministers to help purify the Communion cups and plates when there were not enough priests or deacons to do so.<br \/>\nDWF: Yes, and the indult expired and was not renewed. Is that synonymous with &#8220;barred?&#8221;<br \/>\nDF: Don\u2019t you realize that the distribution of roles to ministers \u2013 even when appropriate \u2013 is always freighted?<br \/>\nDWF: I do, but I just have this question.<br \/>\nDF: Okay, okay. Ask it.<br \/>\nDWF: My point is, that I have hardly ever seen a priest or deacon purify a chalice at the altar \u2026<br \/>\nDF: Ah, I see you\u2019re using the new translation \u201cchalice\u201d.<br \/>\nDWF: Stop sidetracking. I was saying that I have rarely seen the chalice purified at the altar. All the chalices are taken by extraordinary ministers into the sacristy.<br \/>\nDF: That\u2019s because a distinction was made between \u201cpurifying\u201d and \u201ccleansing.\u201d I quote. \u201cIn accord with the Holy Father\u2019s recent decision, as reported in Cardinal Arinze\u2019s letter of October 12, 2006 (Prot. no. 468\/05\/L), an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion may not assist in the purification of sacred vessels. After the vessels have been purified, the extraordinary minister(s) of Holy Communion may cleanse and dry the vessels.\u201d<br \/>\nDWF: I know. And I don\u2019t think extraordinary ministers should be barred from doing that. They are clearly allowed to cleanse the vessels.<br \/>\nDF: So your question is what happened to the distinction between purifying and cleansing?<br \/>\nDWF: No, more accurately, my question is whether we should care that the distinction exists?<br \/>\nDF: Well, let\u2019s explore your train of thought. Why might we care?<br \/>\nDWF: I recall once reading the story of British convert who said it began by the care with which he saw the vessels treated after communion.<br \/>\nDF: So you think that purifying the cup is a more important ritual action than receiving from the cup?<br \/>\nDWF: Ah, I see you\u2019re using the old translation \u201ccup.\u201d<br \/>\nDF: Stop sidetracking. Isn\u2019t the prayer over the bread and wine of primary importance, and the purification and cleansing of the vessels that hold the body and blood of secondary, or even tertiary importance?<br \/>\nDWF: Yes. I agree entirely. I\u2019m only asking whether even secondary and tertiary symbols are important. No, more accurately, I\u2019m not asking anything, I\u2019m observing something.<br \/>\nDF: What?<br \/>\nDWF: That the symbol doesn\u2019t happen anymore.<br \/>\nDF: Maye it happens in the sacristy.<br \/>\nDWF: Maybe. But if it does, it isn&#8217;t seen. Would you be happy with that?<br \/>\nDF: No.<br \/>\nDWF: And the clarification was that an extraordinary minister does not purify.<br \/>\nDF: So you are a rubrical legalist.<br \/>\nDWF: Stop sidetracking. We can have the discussion about the value of rubrics and liturgical legislation another day. Right now I\u2019m asking a question of ritual symbolism.<br \/>\nDF: Which is?<br \/>\nDWF: Should some act of purification take place at the altar or credence table, before the vessels are cleansed in the sacristy?<br \/>\nDF: At our parish we have 4, 8, 16, 32 cups \u2026<br \/>\nDWF: Stop exaggerating.<br \/>\nDF: Okay, but we have quite a few cups, and it would really needlessly delay the mass if they all had to be purified by Father at the altar. That\u2019s how we struck on this practical solution.<br \/>\nDWF: So it was all about time? But I thought liturgists objected to making decisions about liturgical symbol on the basis of utility.<br \/>\nDF: Well (sputter), yes, that was a lesson taught by Guardini and Jungmann.<br \/>\nDWF: What if only one chalice was purified at the altar?<br \/>\nDF: You mean for nostalgia\u2019s sake? Just to give that ol\u2019 medieval feeling again?<br \/>\nDWF: No, it\u2019s a hypothesis. Suppose it was Christian instinct to reverentially purify the chalice. Suppose we believed it inappropriate to simply jettison what our ancestors knew by instinct. Suppose we included a ritual of purification.<br \/>\nDF: That would make the people into be passive spectators.<br \/>\nDWF: True, they would be watching, and I suppose that\u2019s the definition of \u201cspectator.\u201d And they would not have their hands in soap suds, if that\u2019s your definition of \u201cpassive.\u201d<br \/>\nDF: Now you\u2019re being sarcastic.<br \/>\nDWF: Mea culpa. But I think there\u2019s a better objection.<br \/>\nDF: You\u2019re helping me out? What is it?<br \/>\nDWF: Is it acceptable to purify only one chalice while the rest are taken into the sacristy? That seems to put the word \u201cjust\u201d into \u201cjust a symbol.\u201d<br \/>\nDF: What do you mean?<br \/>\nDWF: There\u2019s a difference between doing a real action symbolically, and doing a symbolic thing instead of the action. Is it inappropriate for the priest or deacon to only purify one &#8220;as just a symbol,&#8221; if he&#8217;s not purifying them all?<br \/>\nDF: But we already have an action like that in the mass. Father performs a fraction rite on one host, though he doesn\u2019t do so on any others.<br \/>\nDWF: Now you\u2019re helping me with an argument?<br \/>\nDF: Sorry. I got confused. What are we doing again?<br \/>\nDWF: We\u2019re only observing that everyone talks about how liturgy forms, and symbol expresses. Once there was an act which was a part of the liturgical activity at the altar, and it has disappeared. And its disappearance was not the result of a conscious decision, it just sort of slipped in there, and for what appears to be utilitarian reasons, and then after the fact it became a politicized issue about power struggle. And I wanted to ask if we\u2019re satisfied with that.<br \/>\nDF: So you don\u2019t propose a solution?<br \/>\nDWF: I don\u2019t know if there\u2019s a problem to solve. I\u2019m just observing.<br \/>\nDF: That\u2019s the trouble with you.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>DF: They won\u2019t understand your intention.<br \/>\nDWF: But it\u2019s not complicated. I just have a question. Questions are what academics do.<br \/>\nDF: But it\u2019s a politicized issue, and people will think you\u2019re advocating one thing or denying another thing.<br \/>\nDWF: But surely I can raise an observation.<br \/>\nDF: It\u2019s your skin. Go ahead.<br \/>\nDWF: Well, all I said was it dawned on me one day that in the twenty years since I became a Catholic I\u2019ve only seen the rite of purifying the vessels about half a dozen times.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[19,93],"tags":[489,490],"class_list":["post-5140","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-mass","category-humor","tag-eucharistic-vessels","tag-purification"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.3 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>On a Lapsed Symbol - Home<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2010\/11\/06\/on-a-lapsed-symbol\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"On a Lapsed Symbol - Home\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"DF: They won\u2019t understand your intention. DWF: But it\u2019s not complicated. I just have a question. Questions are what academics do. DF: But it\u2019s a politicized issue, and people will think you\u2019re advocating one thing or denying another thing. DWF: But surely I can raise an observation. DF: It\u2019s your skin. Go ahead. 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