{"id":24089,"date":"2014-02-06T09:21:18","date_gmt":"2014-02-06T15:21:18","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/?p=24089"},"modified":"2014-02-06T09:21:18","modified_gmt":"2014-02-06T15:21:18","slug":"yves-congar-my-journal-of-the-council-part-xxvi","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2014\/02\/06\/yves-congar-my-journal-of-the-council-part-xxvi\/","title":{"rendered":"Yves Congar, My Journal of the Council,<\/i> Part XXVI"},"content":{"rendered":"

Wednesday 16 October 1963<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Coptic Mass: a full hour.<\/p>\n

During the Mass, Cardinal Cicognani, Secretary of State, came to look for Cardinal Agagianian and drew him aside in order to speak to him. Before long, the other Moderators joined them. They seemed very preoccupied. The whole thing was repeated THREE TIMES, the Cardinal Secretary of State going away and then returning some time later. Those who saw all that close up and told me about it thought that it was all connected with the disagreement that arose over the question of the three (four) votes that the Moderators wish to submit to the Council:
\n1) the sacramentality of the episcopate;
\n2) collegiality;
\n3) the diaconate: re-establish it with no stipulation about celibacy possibly a married diaconate.<\/p>\n

This morning those bishops representing a number of others are due to speak on Chapter II.<\/p>\n

Joachim Amman (Germany) attacked the existence of diplomatic representation of the Holy See, which likens the Church to temporal states. He questioned their episcopal character. He also questioned the greater confidence placed in their reports than in the bishops. \u2026<\/p>\n

Carretto (Thailand) in favour of the diaconate as NECESSARY; possibly, ordain men who are married and economically independent.<\/p>\n

Henr\u00edquez Jimenez (Venezuela), in the name of the episcopal conference of Venezuela: it should be be more formally declared that the bishops hold their power from Christ through the sacrament (the sacramental, not juridical, structure of the Church). He referred to the correction of the French bishops of the West. Difficulties have been raised concerning collegiality because people were starting from a JURIDICAL point of view and an administrative conception of episcopacy. Very good position on the priesthood and the diaconate.<\/p>\n

Msgr. Zoghby (UAR). The voice of the East has not been heard sufficiently. Asked for a paragraph on particular Churches. He gave a text to the Secretariat. The doctrine of the primacy has evolved to such an extent in a unilateral sense that the Easterners do not recognize what they have known and accepted up to now. In the schema, the primacy is expressed in an even more unilateral way, unacceptable to the Orthodox. There is too much reference to the pope and so the impression is given that his power RESTRICTS that of the bishops. There is too little reference to Christ the priest. It is not stated that the authority of the pope is not absolute, but always linked with that of the college. He was amazed that anyone would question collegiality, which is traditional and is alive in (synodal) governance of the Patriarchates.<\/p>\n

In between the speeches, various alterations to De S Liturgia <\/em>were put to the assembly.<\/p>\n

Msgr. Jacquier in the name of the bishops of North Africa: collegiality has an exterior aspect and an interior one (communion of faith and love). Theology and mystique of communion (I recognized the hands of Frs. Le Guillou and Dupuy). Pastoral aspect: mutual help. (All that is very true and correct, but we have been hearing that for the past ten days and very few of those present were listening: many left their places.)<\/p>\n

Msgr. Holland (England) in the name of the bishops of England and Wales: collegiality must be made concrete and made manifest by making the bishops co-operate in the government of the universal Church, by setting up a means by which the spirit of the Council, and even, in some way, its reality, will be continued.<\/p>\n

Echeverria (Ecuador): praise for collegiality from the pastoral and practical point of view (equal sharing out of priests . . . ).<\/p>\n

Another bishop from Ecuador: in favour of the diaconate.<\/p>\n

A Polish bishop in the name of the Polish bishops, about the diaconate: some aspects are positive and others negative (for the Polish situation). They would prefer secular institutes . . . It should be adapted with the consent of the pope.<\/p>\n

Discussion of Chapter III of De Ecclesia <\/em>commenced at this point.<\/p>\n

Cardinal Ruffini proposed some alterations to be made: The word mitti, missi <\/em>\u00a0and everything that seems to place lay people and the hierarchy on the same footing. This is obsessive! He spoke for twenty minutes (twenty-two minutes), at least, or rather he shouted.<\/p>\n

Cardinal Cento, President of the Commission on the Laity: pleased with this theological basis; he spoke with emphasis without saying very much.<\/p>\n

Cardinal Bueno y Monreal (Spain): lay people in the Church: a true epiphany! Praised the work done to get away from the idea of an entirely clerical Church. However, some comments: the expression \u2018People of God\u2019 is new; better to speak of the mystical Body. It can be understood in several ways . . .<\/p>\n

Cardinal Bacci on the priesthood of Christians, which is called universal; criticized this expression and some others, and even that of PRIESTHOOD when used of the laity, except in the generic and opposite sense.<\/p>\n

The results of the voting on the eight emendationes De S Liturgia <\/em>[amendments to the document on the Sacred Liturgy] were given. I did not write down the figures.<\/p>\n

At 6 pm, at the Spanish College in Via Apollinari, a meeting requested by the Spaniards. Those present: Msgr. Morcillo (Saragossa), Msgr. Guerry, Frs. Rahner, Dupuy, Salaverri, F\u00e9ret, myself, Dournes, Urresti and six other Spaniards including a certain L\u00f3pez Gallego, who talked a lot, was deaf, and was shut up in his entirely conceptual definitions as in a suit of armor from the time of Henri II. After some hesitation, we spoke of De Populo Dei<\/em>; the deaf man wanted to see everything within the framework of a definition of rational sociology; the same for the concept of royal priesthood. Rahner, as always, monopolized the dialogue. He is marvelous, but he does not realize that where he is there is no room left for anything else. A desire emerged for a development of the history of salvation. A text needs to be produced. As Fr. Dournes had just given me one that he had written, I suggested \u2013 without having looked at it! \u2013 that copies of his text should be produced and distributed to those present to serve as a first basis for our discussion. The Spaniards would have liked us to produce a text that could be endorsed by several episcopates: they want to emerge from their isolation, build bridges, and that is why, in spite of having an incredible amount of work to do, I wanted to respond to their appeal. But Rahner pointed out, quite rightly, that we are already engaged in a work for our respective bishops and that we should not create a new moral person. In our respective groups, we will report on these meetings, without their giving rise to a separate activity with respect to the Council.<\/p>\n

Yves Congar,\u00a0<\/em><\/em>My Journal of the Council,\u00a0pp. 377-380. For previous posts in this series, simply enter \u201cCongar\u201d in the search box in the upper right.\u00a0The 1100-page book\u00a0can be purchased from Liturgical Press<\/a>.<\/em><\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Joachim Amman (Germany) attacked the existence of diplomatic representation of the Holy See, which likens the Church to temporal states. He questioned their episcopal character. 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