{"id":12375,"date":"2011-11-23T21:08:16","date_gmt":"2011-11-24T03:08:16","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/?p=12375"},"modified":"2017-10-21T20:42:18","modified_gmt":"2017-10-22T01:42:18","slug":"francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em>Q. What prompted the bishops to revise the Roman Missal from the way it was in the mid-1980s?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. The initiative came not from the English-speaking bishops, but from the Vatican. The Vatican did not like the ICEL (International Commission on English in the Liturgy) translations, so it devised its own translations largely through the <em>Vox Clara<\/em> commission, a group of senior English-speaking bishops headed by Cardinal Pell of Sydney, Australia.<\/p>\n<p><em>Q. What are some of the most notable changes?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. There has been a move from \u201cdynamic equivalence\u201d translations to a \u201cformal equivalence\u201d rule. This finds\u00a0its simplest example in the <em>Confiteor<\/em>, which states that\u00a0I have sinned, <em>mea culpa, mea culpa. mea maxima culpa <\/em>(\u201cthrough my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault\u201d) \u2013 not just \u201cthrough\u00a0my fault\u201d (dynamic equivalence ). This means that words are translated more literally.<\/p>\n<p><em>Q. One change \u2014 from saying that Jesus is \u201cone in being with the Father\u201d to \u201cconsubstantial with the Father\u201d \u2014 seems like inserting more difficult word for most Catholics to understand. Why not make it easier rather than harder?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. The Vatican \u2013 and <em>Vox Clara<\/em> \u2013 were\u00a0and are very doctrinally\u00a0concerned. So they have made sure that all wording is doctrinally accurate, and as full as possible. \u201cOne in being with the Father\u201d could be interpreted as saying that Jesus is a creature of the Father, the Arian heresy of the 4th century.\u00a0Nicaea &#8211; the source of the Nicene Creed &#8211; says that Jesus\u00a0is of \u201cone substance with the Father.\u201d He is not a lesser God or God in an incomplete way.\u00a0So it chose the word\u00a0\u201dconsubstantial\u201d as the best translation of the doctrine involved.<\/p>\n<p><em>Q. Which revisions have been the most controversial and why?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. The process was pretty murky, and \u2013 in some people&#8217;s minds \u2013 far too political,\u00a0involving a \u201csmoke-filled back room\u201d process. However, I think the final result is good.\u00a0It is more faithful to Latin and to doctrine. I like it. I didn&#8217;t think I would like is. Some of my colleagues\u00a0like Peter Jeffrey, a conservative Catholic musicologist at Princeton, and Fr. Anthony Ruff at St. John&#8217;s in Collegeville, don&#8217;t like the way the principles were applied. However,\u00a0most bishops and priests \u2013 and even originally hesitant liturgists \u2013 have gotten on board.<\/p>\n<p>Some\u00a0bishops in the U.S.&#8211;like Donald Trautman of Erie, have expressed strong opposition to the translations, calling them roughly-hewn and unspeakable. Some people, like\u00a0Rita Ferrone, say they are unsingable, but I do not find that to be the case. When set to chant, they are eminently singable.<\/p>\n<p><em>Q. How long have you been rehearsing the changes with your parish? How have people responded?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. We introduced new musical translations in October, as the U.S. bishops allowed this. I have snuck in the new translation of the <em>Confiteor<\/em> at weekday Masses since\u00a0early November. There was practically no comment. People got the hang of the new wording quickly.<\/p>\n<p><em>Q. Do parishioners seem comfortable with the new wording?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. Yes, when they get used to it.<\/p>\n<p><em>Q. What will take place on Nov. 27? Any special celebration of the new missal?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. No. We will simply introduce\u00a0it and then after Masses hold \u201chearings\u201d to get reaction and to answer questions. This is called a mystagogical approach &#8211; reflecting on the meaning of what has\u00a0been proclaimed.<\/p>\n<p><em>Q. I know you have done lots of work on liturgy. Did you have something to do with the new wording?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. Actually I was a consulter to ICEL from 2002-2002.\u00a0Then\u00a0I got fired, like everybody else. Strange, because\u00a0at the first meeting of ICEL, I was the ONLY defendant of the new translation principles set out in <em>Liturgiam authenticam<\/em>, the Vatican document of 2001,\u00a0which called for a change in translation principles.<\/p>\n<p><em>Q. Any further thoughts you could share that would help me write a balanced and information description of what is happening on November 27?<\/em><\/p>\n<p>A. No. We hope it is like one more Sunday.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p><i>Pray Tell<\/i> is happy to present this interview with Msgr. M. Francis Mannion of the diocese of Salt Lake City.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":78,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"_wpas_customize_per_network":false},"categories":[24],"tags":[47,1199,1498,1200],"class_list":["post-12375","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-translation-new-missal","tag-icel","tag-msgr-m-francis-mannion","tag-november-27-2011","tag-our-sunday-visitor"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.3 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Francis Mannion on the new translation, II - Home<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II - Home\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Pray Tell is happy to present this interview with Msgr. M. Francis Mannion of the diocese of Salt Lake City.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Home\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2011-11-24T03:08:16+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-10-22T01:42:18+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/02\/pt.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"411\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"90\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Francis Mannion\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Francis Mannion\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Francis Mannion\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/00056ecece512f638325309e2ecba809\"},\"headline\":\"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II\",\"datePublished\":\"2011-11-24T03:08:16+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-10-22T01:42:18+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":676,\"commentCount\":69,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#organization\"},\"keywords\":[\"ICEL\",\"Msgr. M. Francis Mannion\",\"November 27 2011\",\"Our Sunday Visitor\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Translation \\\/ New Missal\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/\",\"name\":\"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II - Home\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2011-11-24T03:08:16+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-10-22T01:42:18+00:00\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/2011\\\/11\\\/23\\\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/\",\"name\":\"Home\",\"description\":\"Worship, Wit &amp; Wisdom\",\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#organization\"},\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Organization\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#organization\",\"name\":\"Home\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/\",\"logo\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/logo\\\/image\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2023\\\/09\\\/cropped-BlogHeaderFinal2.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2023\\\/09\\\/cropped-BlogHeaderFinal2.jpg\",\"width\":1340,\"height\":209,\"caption\":\"Home\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/logo\\\/image\\\/\"}},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/00056ecece512f638325309e2ecba809\",\"name\":\"Francis Mannion\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/praytellblog.com\\\/index.php\\\/author\\\/fmannion\\\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II - Home","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II - Home","og_description":"Pray Tell is happy to present this interview with Msgr. M. Francis Mannion of the diocese of Salt Lake City.","og_url":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/","og_site_name":"Home","article_published_time":"2011-11-24T03:08:16+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-10-22T01:42:18+00:00","og_image":[{"width":411,"height":90,"url":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/02\/pt.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Francis Mannion","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Francis Mannion","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/"},"author":{"name":"Francis Mannion","@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#\/schema\/person\/00056ecece512f638325309e2ecba809"},"headline":"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II","datePublished":"2011-11-24T03:08:16+00:00","dateModified":"2017-10-22T01:42:18+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/"},"wordCount":676,"commentCount":69,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#organization"},"keywords":["ICEL","Msgr. M. Francis Mannion","November 27 2011","Our Sunday Visitor"],"articleSection":["Translation \/ New Missal"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/","url":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/","name":"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II - Home","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#website"},"datePublished":"2011-11-24T03:08:16+00:00","dateModified":"2017-10-22T01:42:18+00:00","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/11\/23\/francis-mannion-on-the-new-translation-ii\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Francis Mannion on the new translation, II"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/","name":"Home","description":"Worship, Wit &amp; Wisdom","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#organization","name":"Home","url":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/09\/cropped-BlogHeaderFinal2.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/09\/cropped-BlogHeaderFinal2.jpg","width":1340,"height":209,"caption":"Home"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"}},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/#\/schema\/person\/00056ecece512f638325309e2ecba809","name":"Francis Mannion","url":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/author\/fmannion\/"}]}},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12375","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/78"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=12375"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12375\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":12456,"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12375\/revisions\/12456"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=12375"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=12375"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=12375"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}