{"id":11700,"date":"2011-10-02T09:36:43","date_gmt":"2011-10-02T14:36:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/?p=11700"},"modified":"2011-10-02T16:39:07","modified_gmt":"2011-10-02T21:39:07","slug":"random-thoughts-on-ep-iii","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/10\/02\/random-thoughts-on-ep-iii\/","title":{"rendered":"Random thoughts on EP III"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In most of the dioceses of England and Wales, we are now into our second month of using the new translation of the Order of Mass.<\/p>\n<p>Most clergy seem to have given up on Eucharistic Prayer I as too difficult to proclaim. Complaints include rhythmical problems, lack of flow, and so on. I have not heard of anyone tackling Eucharistic Prayer IV either. Most priests seem to be using EPs II and III, and thus by a strange coincidence at all the Masses at which I have been present since the beginning of September, in a variety of churches, I have only heard EP III.<\/p>\n<p>In the course of listening to the revised text, I have become increasingly uneasy about one or two phrases in this Eucharistic Prayer.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>I want first of all to contrast these lines from the 1970 translation of the 1969 <em>Ordo Missae<\/em> with the same lines in the Missal of 2010:<\/p>\n<p>1970<br \/>\n<em>From age to age you gather a people to yourself,<br \/>\nso that from east to west<br \/>\na perfect offering may be made<br \/>\nto the glory of your name.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>2010<br \/>\n<em>and you never cease to gather a people to yourself,<br \/>\nso that from the rising of the sun to its setting<br \/>\na pure sacrifice may be offered to your name.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>There is no doubt that 2010 is a more accurate rendition of the Latin text:<br \/>\n<em>et p\u00f3pulum tibi congreg\u00e1re non d\u00e9sinis, ut a solis ortu usque ad occ\u00e1sum obl\u00e1tio munda offer\u00e1tur n\u00f3mini tuo.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>However, the phrase that has been nagging at me is \u201cfrom the rising of the sun to its setting\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>I am well aware that many clergy have already been using this for some years in the midst of the 1970 text, on the grounds that it is (a) more poetic, and (b) picks up the psalmic allusion [Psalm 50:1d, and more especially Ps 113:3 \u201cFrom the rising of the sun to its setting, praised be the name of the Lord!\u201d]. I certainly appreciate both of those reasons, but I am wondering if the translation is in fact a betrayal of the intentions of the composer of EP III (and it is good to remind ourselves that it <strong>is<\/strong> a new composition, originating in a newly-composed Prayer by Cipriano Vagaggini).<\/p>\n<p>We know far more today than the psalmist did all those centuries ago. Then, life took place during the waking hours of daylight, literally from sunrise to sunset, and Ps 113 was an encouragement to be constantly praising God from the time that you awoke until the time you went to sleep. It reminds me of those cenobitic monks who used to pray the entire psalter in a single day, every day: non-stop praise of God. (It was easy for them to do: they were the \u201cprofession pray-ers\u201d and had little else to do except pray!)<\/p>\n<p>However, I feel quite sure that the original intent of the phrase in EP III was actually \u201c<strong>from one end of the earth to the other<\/strong>\u201d; and for me, \u201cfrom east to west\u201d is a much better way of suggesting that, especially in these days when we have 24 hours of time zones and an International Date Line where east and west actually meet. Yes, I know that some have \u201cabused\u201d the text by saying \u201cfrom east to west and from north to south\u201d, but they too have been attempting to convey the idea of \u201calways <strong>and everywhere<\/strong>\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>I do not think that \u201cfrom the rising of the sun to its setting\u201d does that in today\u2019s modern civilization. The phrase is \u201ctemporally limiting\u201d, and could even <em>in extremis<\/em> imply that during the hours of darkness the sacrifice is not actually being offered.<\/p>\n<p>The more I have listened to this phrase, the more I have become convinced that in fact it is not an accurate translation of the <strong>intent<\/strong> of the original.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<\/p>\n<p>My second point is not so much about the text of EP III since it also applies to EPs I and IV, less so to II, but about the memorial acclamations in the Prayers.<\/p>\n<p>It was brought home to me today, listening to people \u201cacclaiming\u201d<br \/>\n<em>Save us, Saviour of the world,<br \/>\nfor by your Cross and Resurrection<br \/>\nyou have set us free.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>followed immediately by the priest saying<br \/>\n<em>Therefore, O Lord, as we celebrate the memorial<br \/>\nof the saving Passion of your Son,\u2026.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>I was struck more than I have ever been before by the <strong>disjuncture<\/strong> between addressing Christ and then switching back to God as a whole and the Father in particular. And it is a real disjuncture, one that perhaps you only notice precisely at the moment of switching back. (It\u2019s less obvious in EP II because the word \u201cLord\u201d does not occur until several lines on.)<\/p>\n<p>I think I have written previously on this forum about interviewing Gelineau on this topic, since he was the person responsible for the insertion of a memorial acclamation into the Eucharistic Prayer in the course of his time on the Consilium working group after the Council. I mentioned the problem of switching back and forth from Father to Son and back to Father, and asked whether it might not have been possible to have provided acclamations <strong>about<\/strong> Christ rather than addressed <strong>to<\/strong> Christ. For example,<br \/>\n<em>We proclaim his Death, O Lord,<br \/>\nand profess his Resurrection<br \/>\nuntil he comes again.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>where \u201cLord\u201d would still be addressed to the Father.<\/p>\n<p>Gelineau\u2019s response was that certainly they could have done that without a problem. When asked why they didn\u2019t, he said that the only reason was that they did not find that form in the tradition. Such acclamations were usually addressed to Christ. Pressed once again to say why he thought that was so, he said that the people always felt \u201ccloser\u201d to Christ, and so addressed him. (I forbore to comment on the prayer that begins \u201cOur Father\u2026\u201d)  Today, when our relationship with God is more of an intimate one along the lines of an all-merciful \u201cAbba\u201d, Daddy, rather than a fearful relationship with an all-powerful God who is waiting to pounce on sinners, I think there is considerable justification for saying that we have moved on from the Middle Ages. Gelineau himself did mention, in this context, the fact that when you say Kyrie eleison (but not Christe eleison) you\u2019re addressing whoever you like!<\/p>\n<p>So my dilemma is about how to resolve this disjuncture.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<\/p>\n<p>My third point concerns this clause:<\/p>\n<p>1970<br \/>\n<em>\u2026and all your saints<br \/>\non whose constant intercession we rely for help.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>2010<br \/>\n<em>and with all the Saints,<br \/>\non whose constant intercession in your presence<br \/>\nwe rely for unfailing help.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Once again, 2010 is a more faithful translation of the Latin:<br \/>\n<em>et \u00f3mnibus Sanctis, quorum intercessi\u00f3ne perp\u00e9tuo apud te conf\u00eddimus adiuv\u00e1ri.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>but pays the price by introducing a possible ambiguity in the vernacular text as it is heard. The ambiguity concerns \u201cin your presence\u201d, <em>apud te<\/em>, with its resonances of the Book of Revelation and other apocalyptic literature where saints and angels minister unceasingly around the throne of God.<\/p>\n<p>Because the lines \u201con whose constant intercession in your presence we rely for unfailing help\u201d are a little longer than presiders have been used to, every presider that I have heard so far has introduced a gap, sometimes even a breath, between \u201cintercession\u201d and \u201cin your presence\u201d, thus:<br \/>\n<em>on whose constant intercession<br \/>\nin your presence we rely for unfailing help.<\/em><br \/>\nWhat then happens is that the fleeting impression is given that it is <strong>we<\/strong> rather than the saints who are \u201cin your presence\u201d as we rely for unfailing help. Yes, this is not the fault of the text but the way in which it is delivered, but yes also, this could have been avoided by using a (to my mind equally faithful) translation along the lines of<br \/>\n<em>and with all the Saints,<br \/>\nwhose constant intercession in your presence<br \/>\nis a source of unfailing help for us.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>This points up one of the major problems with the revised translation of the Missal as a whole. It has not been designed in any way for the listener but only for the reader, and more specifically for someone reading to her\/himself silently. One recalls the Jerusalem Bible translation, which was never intended for public proclamation but only for private reading at the student\u2019s desk. In the Missal, the problems are infinitely worse, of course. We have already uncovered many in the form of subordinate clauses whose antecedents are completely unclear, even on paper, let alone to the bewildered listener. I suspect that many subtler instances, such as the one just described, remain to reveal themselves over the course of time.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The more I have listened to this phrase, the more I have become convinced that in fact &#8220;from the rising of the sun to its setting&#8221; is not an accurate translation of the intent of the original.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[10,19,1398],"tags":[719,1573,1574],"class_list":["post-11700","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-ddw-holy-see","category-mass","category-new-missal-implementation","tag-comparing-translations","tag-eucharistic-prayers","tag-joseph-gelineau"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.8 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Random thoughts on EP III - Home<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/praytellblog.com\/index.php\/2011\/10\/02\/random-thoughts-on-ep-iii\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Random thoughts on EP III - Home\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"The more I have listened to this phrase, the more I have become convinced that in fact &quot;from the rising of the sun to its setting&quot; 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