People attending Pope Benedict XVI’s Masses in Scotland and England in September will get a chance to hear and sing a few of the newly translated Mass texts, according to the pope’s chief liturgist. See the report at CNS.
Papal Mass in England will use some new translations
Comments
27 responses to “Papal Mass in England will use some new translations”
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This is good news and I pray that our local bishops will allow parishes that are ready to implement those parts pertaining to the laity as soon as they are ready for it. My parish is long past ready! The pope is leading the way in England, let’s get the lead out and just do it, please, bishops.
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Wonderful! I guess it is coming along after all. It will be a joy hearing the texts and here is another teachable moment for pastors.
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On the other hand, big deal. They used new texts in Sydney at WYD ’08. The big question is will these British texts be the final ones or will the VC bishops keep tinkering? The whole thing is, to borrow parlance from the hosts, a bloody embarrassment.
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Msgr. Guido Marini is problematic. For him to use this translation, which most likely has changed since it was approved, sets the English speaking world back on properly catechizing for the implementation. Again, we shouldn’t use these texts until the Bishops’ Conferences have decided on the implementation date. Guido should focus on using the proper texts that are already in use, instead of how classy he thinks he looks in liturgerie (you know, the lace surplice you can get from Father Victor’s Secret on the Borgo Pio). Bring back Abp. Piero Marini, please!
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Given this announcement, why haven’t the Publishers been given permission to distribute the new mass settings? This seems very odd.
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The texts are not yet approved for use in England & Wales.
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I know…but they are going to be used anyway? I don’t get it.
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Well, there’s still the chance they won’t be.
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And as the only new texts being used are the people’s parts (the Eucharistic Prayer is in Latin) and, therefore, newly composed, they won’t exactly inspire the people to song.
Pope Pius XII’s 1947 Mediator Dei, specifically mentions “large gatherings of the faithful”. He calls on the bishops to “promote with care congregational singing, and to see to its accurate execution with all due dignity” because it “easily stirs up and arouses the faith and piety” of the assembly.
He continues: “Let the full harmonious singing of our people rise to heaven like the bursting of a thunderous sea and let them testify by the melody of their song to the unity of their hearts and minds, as becomes brothers and the children of the same Father.”
Well that’s unlikely to happen with unfamiliar texts and music. But haven’t we been here before, not many weeks ago?
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Same song; fourth verse…….
This is sad.
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You guys must have powerful crystal balls to see the future so clearly.
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If by “the future” you mean how well this will be sung at a huge event, then one doesn’t need a crystal ball, simply a working knowledge of congregational music.
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The music for MacMillian’s setting of the Mass parts are already available so that people can learn them. It’s found on http://www.forthinpraise.co.uk/mass.php. But I’d agree that learning these would be more effective if they are being introduced and used in Sunday Masses. Perhaps, the good Bishops could give a special permission to use the new texts with MacMillian’s setting from now to the Papal visit. Of course, those who are concerned about congregational singing could also consider chant in Latin – if Mediator Dei were as well implemented as it should be, all of us should be able to belt out Credo III or the Missa de Angelis with ease. Maybe not in time for this Papal Mass, but surely for the future.
I know some people are concerned (and legitimately so, perhaps) about rumours of changes to the texts of the Order of the Mass. Since only the Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus Dei and one response to the Mysterium Fidei are used at this papal Mass, perhaps this signals that there aren’t edits to these texts.
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“… the pope’s chief liturgist …”
That would be the Papal MC. I don’t know that he’s been to the right workshops to be considered a liturgist.
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Ha!
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Like the Agnus – some deliciously luscious writing in there. But rather unsure about the Sanctus which is one of the most important assembly items, second only to the Great Amen. I’m really not sure my congregation – who really are good at learning stuff – could deal with this. And that is, surely, the test of any piece of assembly music.
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Hi! I’m the person who organises the webpage mentioned in Simon Ho’s comment above. Forth in Praise (www.forthinpraise.co.uk) is the music website of the Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh. Getting music ready for the papal visit to Scotland has been a mad scramble, and there has been a lot of opposition to the new Mass composed by James MacMillan on the grounds that it is ‘difficult’. It isn’t really difficult, just different. Not only are the words new (and it IS the new text of the Ordinary, just for this occasion), but the style of music also. Many of us think it is very lovely, and an important development in liturgical music.
At present our website seems to be the only place where you can listen to the melodies. We aren’t allowed to include the words in the MP3 files, but they’re on the webpage. If you go to our Singing the Mass page of the website and listen to the ‘original’ Sanctus and Agnus, you’ll get the flavour of it (the ‘repeats’ sections are just for the papal visit, and will disappear afterwards).
The Mass isn’t published yet, but it won’t be long. James MacMillan’s publisher is Boosey & Hawkes, and the official title of the Mass is ‘Mass of Blessed John Henry Newman’ or simply, ‘The Newman Mass’.
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Hi. The Sanctus is in use in my own parish and the people have picked it up gradually, and now know it. Any new music was going to be tricky for the papal masses in the UK, but MDs all over the country have been working very hard. The music has been written so that the Catholic anglosphere can use it in the years ahead. I am proud, honored and humbled that the British Bishops asked me to write this new setting to mark the visit of the Holy Father.
I am only sad that those with their own irrelevant issues in the ‘liturgy wars’ have sullied the experience with unnecessary negativity and unfriendliness.
Please ignore them! Boosey and Hawkes will be publishing the music soon after the visit. I would be very keen to know what our north-American cousins make of it in due course!
With all my best wishes,
James
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Hi James,
Good to see you on here.
The Agnus is delicious – thank you for that. I’m not convinced about the Sanctus but only time will tell.
One query – you say that “the Sanctus is in use in my own parish”. We’re not yet allowed to use this text south of the border. How have you around that wrinkle up there?-
Nick, when you say that we’re “not allowed to use this text south of the border”, is that a national ruling by the Bishops’ Conference for England and Wales, or a particular one for your own Archdiocese?
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The texts are not approved for use anywhere in the British Isles, and will not be approved until (a) the various episcopal conferences receive a final text along with a recognitio and (b) the same episcopal conferences have designated one or more implementation dates, at which point the new texts will start to be used.
All the celebrations using samples of the new texts so far have been one-offs, mostly done with the specific permission of a bishop, sometimes a local Ordinary, sometimes Bishop Arthur Roche. The MacMillan usages for the papal visit will also be one-offs, this time imposed by Bishop Tartaglia against the wishes of those organizing the events, but confirmed by the Papal MC.
The Scots are not allowed to use the new texts north of the border either, except by special permission of a local Ordinary, which it may be that James MacMillan has received for his own parish on an ongoing ad experimentum basis. If not, he too is in breach of liturgical law, as are some others south of the border who are already using the new texts on a regular basis in their parishes. The bishops are not happy about this, because they want implementation of the new texts to go hand-in-hand with the appropriate catechesis. The time for that catechesis is not yet.
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Does anyone know if it’s likely that the E&W version will be the same as that for the US: ie the recent tweak to the Per Ipsum?
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I think it’s very likely, since Rome favors uniform texts as much as possible. But as Paul Inwood suggests – you never know!
awr
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As I said;
“I am only sad that those with their own irrelevant issues in the ‘liturgy wars’ have sullied the experience with unnecessary negativity and unfriendliness.”
The time for catachesis was years ago…
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Amen.
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James is right, of course, when he says, “The time for catechesis was years ago.” But, while I cannot speak for his native Scotland, here in England catechesis was either thin on the ground or simply ignored.
It’s worth reading “English Catholic Worship: Liturgical Renewal in England since 1900” (London: 1979, Geoffrey Chapman) for the memories of those who were around during and after Vatican 2, including Ainslie, Crichton and Winstone.
This book (I’ve just looked at Amazon – you can get a copy for anything from 41p to £39) explains how musicians felt during the late 60s and early 70s. And – being too young to really remember – it explains why we still have some parishes which exclude the assembly in favour of the choir and some which have disbanded their choir in favour of the assembly. And it all appears to be down to a lack of catechesis. (Ctd…)
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(…crd) Researching music in parishes in the north of England a couple of years ago, I found musicians who thought it acceptable to exclude the assembly from the Sanctus and others who were happy twanging a guitar for a metrical setting with a versified (and, therefore, incorrect) text.
I also discovered I was an ageing happy-clappy hippy (who loves Haydn and Mozart) and a terribly old-fashioned traddie (who likes Haugen and Haas).
Until parish musicians understand why we sing what we sing – and who should sing it – I’m not convinced the time for catechesis is over.
And I now feel the need for a glass of The Musician (from the Majella vineyard) and Haydn’s Nelson Mass.
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